Author Topic: New Select Group System Needed?  (Read 832 times)

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DublinRef

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New Select Group System Needed?
« on: Tue 24 Nov 2020 16:22 »
Sorry if this is a boring over talked about topic but I had some thoughts I'd be interested to see what others think.

I've been thinking recently about Michael Oliver and his large volume of games.

If the PGMOL continue to manage Michael Oliver in this manner I think it is inevitable that his European performances will be affected. I think they should strongly consider implementing a different set of protocols (if they don't already have them) for appointing referees who are operating internationally.

Something along the lines of one match week out of five totally off and at least one with only a VAR/FO appointment. Maybe there are some issues with employment law and being fair to others but I think if the PGMOL want to give their officials a better chance to perform well internationally then they need to make a change.

Perhaps some kind of merging of SG1 and SG2 would leave more options to rest referees. I don't know a lot about SG2 referees  and I hope someone will correct me if I'm incorrect but I don't see why the likes of Gillett, Robinson, Whitestone, Brooks for example could not take charge of some low key PL games.

So what I would propose is something similar to the elite development group that UEFA had but formalise it. Where the format could be -

SG1: Primarily PL and occasionally lower
SG1 Development: Primarily Championship but also take a minimum of 5 PL games each season and VAR duties in PL
SG2: Primarily Championship and occasionally lower
SG2 Development: Primarily FL but also take a minimum of 5 Championship games a season also could become involved in VAR
National Panel: Primarily FL and occasionally lower

I think a system like this could help ease pressure on officials and also aid development.

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JCFC

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Re: New Select Group System Needed?
« Reply #1 on: Tue 24 Nov 2020 17:06 »
That sounds much too sensible to be implemented by the current regime.
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ajb95

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Re: New Select Group System Needed?
« Reply #2 on: Tue 24 Nov 2020 17:58 »
What I would like to see which would make more sense is to have a rest AFTER their respective European commitments. So for example, Michael Oliver had A Villa v Brighton, which warms him up for his appointment this midweek, he can then miss next weekend's games. Then he wouldn't get burnout just from the travelling!

Leggy

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Re: New Select Group System Needed?
« Reply #3 on: Tue 24 Nov 2020 18:06 »
What I would like to see which would make more sense is to have a rest AFTER their respective European commitments. So for example, Michael Oliver had A Villa v Brighton, which warms him up for his appointment this midweek, he can then miss next weekend's games. Then he wouldn't get burnout just from the travelling!

I suspect some of the players would like that too.

(The weekend off that is).
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Hendo

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Re: New Select Group System Needed?
« Reply #4 on: Tue 24 Nov 2020 20:04 »
Sorry if this is a boring over talked about topic but I had some thoughts I'd be interested to see what others think.

I've been thinking recently about Michael Oliver and his large volume of games.

If the PGMOL continue to manage Michael Oliver in this manner I think it is inevitable that his European performances will be affected. I think they should strongly consider implementing a different set of protocols (if they don't already have them) for appointing referees who are operating internationally.

Something along the lines of one match week out of five totally off and at least one with only a VAR/FO appointment. Maybe there are some issues with employment law and being fair to others but I think if the PGMOL want to give their officials a better chance to perform well internationally then they need to make a change.

Perhaps some kind of merging of SG1 and SG2 would leave more options to rest referees. I don't know a lot about SG2 referees  and I hope someone will correct me if I'm incorrect but I don't see why the likes of Gillett, Robinson, Whitestone, Brooks for example could not take charge of some low key PL games.

So what I would propose is something similar to the elite development group that UEFA had but formalise it. Where the format could be -

SG1: Primarily PL and occasionally lower
SG1 Development: Primarily Championship but also take a minimum of 5 PL games each season and VAR duties in PL
SG2: Primarily Championship and occasionally lower
SG2 Development: Primarily FL but also take a minimum of 5 Championship games a season also could become involved in VAR
National Panel: Primarily FL and occasionally lower

I think a system like this could help ease pressure on officials and also aid development.

There is a great deal of sense in what you are suggesting but, as others say, almost too sensible for
Riley and his shower to implement it.
When SG2 was set up there was a lot of speculation, indeed hope, on this site that many if not all the SG2 refs, who are after all full time, would each get a few games each season to lessen the pressure on the PL refs and to aid their own development. Disillusionment set in for most of us when, if I recall correctly, not one of them was even given a sniff of a PL middle that first season. A chance blown, whether due to incompetent administration, indifference or whatever.
In my career I worked in a large office, a school and for a national charitable organisation where progression planning, teamwork and load sharing were all essential and brought success. I sometimes feel the PGMOL has lost the plot in all 3 disciplines
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Readingfan

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Re: New Select Group System Needed?
« Reply #5 on: Wed 25 Nov 2020 09:55 »
The point about SG2 officials got me thinking that December time has often seen when we've seen PL trial games (although every game being televised in UK currently might change that a bit and we've had less of the season as a proportion because of later start) - who do we think might be considered if any SG2 refs do get trial games?

The likes of Harrington and Brookes seem to have had some good appointments, Gillett seems a possible contender, Robinson had a PL game last season...

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ajb95

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Re: New Select Group System Needed?
« Reply #6 on: Wed 25 Nov 2020 10:03 »
The point about SG2 officials got me thinking that December time has often seen when we've seen PL trial games (although every game being televised in UK currently might change that a bit and we've had less of the season as a proportion because of later start) - who do we think might be considered if any SG2 refs do get trial games?

The likes of Harrington and Brookes seem to have had some good appointments, Gillett seems a possible contender, Robinson had a PL game last season...

For me there are only 5 refs who are close or are good enough to make the step up: Brooks, Donohue, Gillett, Bond and Harrington

Then you have another group who are good solid championship refs but probably wonít go higher: linington, Martin, Robinson, Eltringham, Webb, Ward and Whitestone + the newbies
Then you have who I perceive are the weakest ones: Langford, Stroud, Woolmer, Davies and Simpson
« Last Edit: Wed 25 Nov 2020 10:55 by ajb95 »
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Seagull

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Re: New Select Group System Needed?
« Reply #7 on: Wed 25 Nov 2020 10:43 »
The point about SG2 officials got me thinking that December time has often seen when we've seen PL trial games (although every game being televised in UK currently might change that a bit and we've had less of the season as a proportion because of later start) - who do we think might be considered if any SG2 refs do get trial games?

The likes of Harrington and Brookes seem to have had some good appointments, Gillett seems a possible contender, Robinson had a PL game last season...

For me there are only 5 refs who are close or are good enough to make the step up: Brooks, Donohue, Gillett, Bond and Harrington

Then you have another group who are good solid championship refs but probably wonít go higher: linington, Martin, Stroud, Eltringham, Webb, Ward and Whitestone + the newbies
Then you have who I perceive are the weakest ones: Langford, Stroud, Woolmer, Davies and Simpson

I'm confused, ajb95. You have Mr. Stroud in both your "solid" and "weakest" lists.  ???

ajb95

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Re: New Select Group System Needed?
« Reply #8 on: Wed 25 Nov 2020 10:55 »
The point about SG2 officials got me thinking that December time has often seen when we've seen PL trial games (although every game being televised in UK currently might change that a bit and we've had less of the season as a proportion because of later start) - who do we think might be considered if any SG2 refs do get trial games?

The likes of Harrington and Brookes seem to have had some good appointments, Gillett seems a possible contender, Robinson had a PL game last season...

For me there are only 5 refs who are close or are good enough to make the step up: Brooks, Donohue, Gillett, Bond and Harrington

Then you have another group who are good solid championship refs but probably wonít go higher: linington, Martin, Stroud, Eltringham, Webb, Ward and Whitestone + the newbies
Then you have who I perceive are the weakest ones: Langford, Stroud, Woolmer, Davies and Simpson

I'm confused, ajb95. You have Mr. Stroud in both your "solid" and "weakest" lists.  ???


Apologies meant Robinson not Stroud- amended  ::)
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Acme Thunderer

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Re: New Select Group System Needed?
« Reply #9 on: Wed 25 Nov 2020 11:24 »
An excellent suggestion DublinRef. Like you I suspect there may be employment issues here, and I recall, when the PL and 'professional' refs first came into being in the 1990s, there were howls of protest from the likes of Ellerary that they weren't getting enough PL games, which quickly led to PL refs being allocated to Championship and L1/2 games as well. I wonder whether the present set up is already part way down the road you suggest. We have Gillett (VAR) and Salisbury Jr (4O) on duty for the Palace game on Friday night and there are other examples of promising refs being on PL duty as part of their development. And if the likes of Oliver show signs of fatigue in this busy season, then surely there are medics, physios and psychologists who will pick this up and deal with it. It is not an ideal situation, but what is ideal at the present in football? And (tongue in cheek) where would our busy refs go for a holiday in the sun at the moment? Thanks for the post DublinRef  :D   
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Gorgeous George

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Re: New Select Group System Needed?
« Reply #10 on: Thu 26 Nov 2020 09:32 »
I think the problem is not a lack of talent or number of referees coming through in SG1... itís more down to the fact that certain referees never get given the chance to have a run of games. Every season first and second year referees predominantly hold boards most weeks and are not given chance to prove themselves as credible Premier League referees due to a lack of opportunities afforded them as we see the same faces every single week in the middle.

We have Bankes, Madley, Jones and England all there not getting regular Premier League middles, so surely they should be blooded more regularly before we start adding further new faces?
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