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Author Topic: Michael Oliver : Aston Villa vs Leicester  (Read 919 times)

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dave26

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Michael Oliver : Aston Villa vs Leicester
« on: Sun 05 Dec 2021 17:21 »
Really not sure why Oliver had disallowed the 2nd Villa goal surely one hand on the ball does not constitute being in control. Unless I’m wrong then it’s a very poor decision by Oliver but if I’m wrong I apologise and good use of VAR
« Last Edit: Sun 05 Dec 2021 17:26 by dave26 »

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DublinRef

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It was my understanding that if the goalkeeper has his hand on the ball while it is on the ground he is deemed to be in control of it? I’m not a soccer referee and wouldn’t be familiar with the nuance of the law but I wasn’t surprised it was ruled out.

Carter

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A very much outstretched hand on top of the ball for no more than a second is deemed in control of the ball.
The game is stuffed.
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rustyref

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100% should be disallowed under current laws, quoted below ...

A goalkeeper is considered to be in control of the ball with the hand(s) when:

• the ball is between the hands or between the hand and any surface (e.g. ground, own body) or by touching it with any part of the hands or arms, except if the ball rebounds from the goalkeeper or the goalkeeper has made a save

• holding the ball in the outstretched open hand

• bouncing it on the ground or throwing it in the air

A goalkeeper cannot be challenged by an opponent when in control of the ball with the hand(s)
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Ashington46

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It was my understanding that if the goalkeeper has his hand on the ball while it is on the ground he is deemed to be in control of it? I’m not a soccer referee and wouldn’t be familiar with the nuance of the law but I wasn’t surprised it was ruled out.

Totally correct and it was a correct decision to rule it out. Without VAR the goal would have stood, however, in these days of VAR when things can be shown and slowed down, it was obvious that Schmeichel's hand was on top of the ball, therefore, Ramsey committed a foul by kicking it, in fact, it could be said that he endangered an opponent and Michael could have added insult to injury by issuing a caution. I would have loved to have seen Villa's reaction then!
Referee's decision used to be final!

Comeonref

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Another bottled decision by Oliver. There is absolutely no way he had full control of that ball
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DublinRef

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100% should be disallowed under current laws, quoted below ...

A goalkeeper is considered to be in control of the ball with the hand(s) when:

• the ball is between the hands or between the hand and any surface (e.g. ground, own body) or by touching it with any part of the hands or arms, except if the ball rebounds from the goalkeeper or the goalkeeper has made a save

• holding the ball in the outstretched open hand

• bouncing it on the ground or throwing it in the air

A goalkeeper cannot be challenged by an opponent when in control of the ball with the hand(s)

Thanks rustyref for clarifying, seems very clear then. Almost like a tight offside, it’s basically a factual decision and they made the right one
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DublinRef

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It was my understanding that if the goalkeeper has his hand on the ball while it is on the ground he is deemed to be in control of it? I’m not a soccer referee and wouldn’t be familiar with the nuance of the law but I wasn’t surprised it was ruled out.

Totally correct and it was a correct decision to rule it out. Without VAR the goal would have stood, however, in these days of VAR when things can be shown and slowed down, it was obvious that Schmeichel's hand was on top of the ball, therefore, Ramsey committed a foul by kicking it, in fact, it could be said that he endangered an opponent and Michael could have added insult to injury by issuing a caution. I would have loved to have seen Villa's reaction then!

Thanks Ashington46. I agree - probably a better call by Michael in terms of game management to not issue a card!
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Affy_Moose

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Another bottled decision by Oliver. There is absolutely no way he had full control of that ball

We expect better on this forum. This is a fan opinion not based on Law.

We can debate the veracity or sense of Law, but not its application when it’s a question of fact. There are subjective Laws, but this isn’t one of them.

It was correctly disallowed.
« Last Edit: Sun 05 Dec 2021 17:36 by Affy_Moose »
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dave26

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100% should be disallowed under current laws, quoted below ...

A goalkeeper is considered to be in control of the ball with the hand(s) when:

• the ball is between the hands or between the hand and any surface (e.g. ground, own body) or by touching it with any part of the hands or arms, except if the ball rebounds from the goalkeeper or the goalkeeper has made a save

• holding the ball in the outstretched open hand

• bouncing it on the ground or throwing it in the air

A goalkeeper cannot be challenged by an opponent when in control of the ball with the hand(s)

Second paragraph states except if the ball rebounds from the goalkeeper or if the goalkeeper makes a save which he did

Ashington46

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Another bottled decision by Oliver. There is absolutely no way he had full control of that ball

You could argue the case pre-VAR, however, this is exactly the sort of factual decision that they are trying to achieve by using VAR ----like it like it not and most know my opinion of VAR!
Referee's decision used to be final!
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DublinRef

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I’ve seen some people arguing that this part of the law changes things -

“except if the ball rebounds from the goalkeeper or the goalkeeper has made a save”

Would anyone in the know be able to offer an explanation of when this exception is applied?

nemesis

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I’ve seen some people arguing that this part of the law changes things -

“except if the ball rebounds from the goalkeeper or the goalkeeper has made a save”

Would anyone in the know be able to offer an explanation of when this exception is applied?

 .......also whether the exception phrase applies to both of the situations either side of the "or" or just the latter one.

Affy_Moose

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100% should be disallowed under current laws, quoted below ...

A goalkeeper is considered to be in control of the ball with the hand(s) when:

• the ball is between the hands or between the hand and any surface (e.g. ground, own body) or by touching it with any part of the hands or arms, except if the ball rebounds from the goalkeeper or the goalkeeper has made a save

• holding the ball in the outstretched open hand

• bouncing it on the ground or throwing it in the air

A goalkeeper cannot be challenged by an opponent when in control of the ball with the hand(s)

Second paragraph states except if the ball rebounds from the goalkeeper or if the goalkeeper makes a save which he did

The second element does not apply. It would apply if the goalkeeper saved the ball (trapped on the ground) and it was then released.

That is to distinguish between that situation and others (such as the action of throwing the ball to kick it, where despite the goalkeeper not touching it, he is deemed by the Law to still have ‘control’).

You cannot kick the ball out of the goalkeeper’s control in the moment of the save.

The second element is not for this situation, though I appreciate the wording is awkward.

rustyref

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That is correct.  It is another law that is not written very well, but the bottom line is if you have the ball between the ground and one hand it is deemed to be under control and therefore it has to be a foul.  It used to be two hands for there to be control, but that hasn't been the case for a long, long time now.