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Author Topic: Merseyside Derby  (Read 3911 times)

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Readingfan

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Re: Merseyside Derby
« Reply #75 on: Mon 19 Oct 2020 11:40 »
The real question I would ask is, why was Coote appointed as VAR for this game?

There's obviously only been a limited sample size but  from what I've seen so far I'd put him in the bottom half of the SG1 VARs. I can think of various mistakes he made last year, such as the Chelsea V Tottenham game, Leicester V Man City and Norwich V Man Utd. I can't think of too many especially impressive interventions he's made to cancel those out (by all means, correct me if I'm wrong!)

I'd probably say Craig Pawson is the best VAR from what I've seen so far. I'd put Simon Hooper in the top half too actually.



Ref Fan

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Re: Merseyside Derby
« Reply #76 on: Mon 19 Oct 2020 12:10 »
As I mention on another thread, Pawson is Assistant VAR with Attwell as VAR for Oliver's CL game on Wednesday.
How do rate Attwell in the PL as VAR?

Readingfan

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Re: Merseyside Derby
« Reply #77 on: Mon 19 Oct 2020 12:20 »
As I mention on another thread, Pawson is Assistant VAR with Attwell as VAR for Oliver's CL game on Wednesday.
How do rate Attwell in the PL as VAR?

Attwell seems to be the number 1 English VAR in UEFA competitions. I remember him doing a piece on Sky Sports News during the training phase of VAR and he came across as a very good communicator. I would put him in the top half certainly although I can't think of too many actual interventions that he has made in the PL now I come to think of it - but I can't think of too many mistakes either, at least until the Shaw incident in Man Utd V Spurs a few weeks ago!


Ref Fan

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Re: Merseyside Derby
« Reply #78 on: Mon 19 Oct 2020 12:29 »
Hope this link works.  The Pickford incident comes very early.  If you pause at about 8/9 seconds, it gives an indication of what Oliver could see.



It looks as if he had a partial view but the Everton defender comes across at the wrong moment.  Oliver may have seen Pickford launch himself and the aftermath.  Anyway, see what you think.

bmb

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Re: Merseyside Derby
« Reply #79 on: Mon 19 Oct 2020 12:37 »
Hope this link works.  The Pickford incident comes very early.  If you pause at about 8/9 seconds, it gives an indication of what Oliver could see.

video edited out - see it in original post

It looks as if he had a partial view but the Everton defender comes across at the wrong moment.  Oliver may have seen Pickford launch himself and the aftermath.  Anyway, see what you think.

If I'm looking at that correctly the view where Pickford is front in it, you can't see any part of Michael Oliver who would therefore be behind the Everton defender as you suggest. I'd have to say imo this is 100% down to the VAR & is just the sort of thing it was supposedly brought in to prevent happening.
Hajrá Lilák. Csak a Kispest. Hajrá Magyarok! Hajrá játékvezetői csapat! Soha ne add fel. Nincs sárga kérem!!! No Chris Kavanagh doesn't live in Ashton or even in the Greater Manchester area!!
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Matt

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Re: Merseyside Derby
« Reply #80 on: Mon 19 Oct 2020 12:44 »
David Coote going full 2020 on Football.

Readingfan

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Re: Merseyside Derby
« Reply #81 on: Mon 19 Oct 2020 12:48 »
A very detailed twitter thread from Dale Johnson on how offside is calculated - https://twitter.com/DaleJohnsonESPN/status/1318144628248449024

FIFA have plans to bring in a more accurate, instant version by the 2022 World Cup which will immediately inform the VAR of an offside player rather than a lengthy wait (although obviously you might still have very tight offsides.)


sastley

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Re: Merseyside Derby
« Reply #82 on: Mon 19 Oct 2020 13:00 »
Agree Scally Bob for VAR to say it was not a red card with the numerous views he must have had is incredible. Incompetence is a correct word to use.
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Ref Fan

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Re: Merseyside Derby
« Reply #83 on: Mon 19 Oct 2020 13:10 »
Hope this link works.  The Pickford incident comes very early.  If you pause at about 8/9 seconds, it gives an indication of what Oliver could see.

video edited out - see it in original post

It looks as if he had a partial view but the Everton defender comes across at the wrong moment.  Oliver may have seen Pickford launch himself and the aftermath.  Anyway, see what you think.

If I'm looking at that correctly the view where Pickford is front in it, you can't see any part of Michael Oliver who would therefore be behind the Everton defender as you suggest. I'd have to say imo this is 100% down to the VAR & is just the sort of thing it was supposedly brought in to prevent happening.

That's true of the still frames. I was looking at the moving part just before, where you see the picture from behind Oliver and the 3 players, Pickford, Van Dijk and the defender, and then it cuts off to the still picture you mention.  It does help to highlight though how a decent position by a referee can suddenly become a (partially) obscured view at a critical moment.

 

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Carter

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Re: Merseyside Derby
« Reply #84 on: Mon 19 Oct 2020 14:32 »
Agree Scally Bob for VAR to say it was not a red card with the numerous views he must have had is incredible. Incompetence is a correct word to use.

From PGMOL's point of view perhaps this is the best outcome to say it was reviewed and decided no action needed ??? ??? ???
It would have looked worse if they had said Coote didnt look at the incident at all.

Either way of course is makes them look ridiculous, just one slightly less than the other, but Riley and Co. can hide behind VARs decision.
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bmb

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Re: Merseyside Derby
« Reply #85 on: Mon 19 Oct 2020 14:44 »
I think Mr Coote needs sending on a VAR refresher course or perhaps more wisely kept right away from it. 

We've had many a discussion on here about who should actually do the role of VAR & it's been suggested many times that being a top flight referee does not automatically mean you will make a good VAR - Mr Coote appears to be proof of that fact!
Hajrá Lilák. Csak a Kispest. Hajrá Magyarok! Hajrá játékvezetői csapat! Soha ne add fel. Nincs sárga kérem!!! No Chris Kavanagh doesn't live in Ashton or even in the Greater Manchester area!!
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Matt

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Re: Merseyside Derby
« Reply #86 on: Mon 19 Oct 2020 14:54 »
I think Mr Coote needs sending on a VAR refresher course or perhaps more wisely kept right away from it. 

We've had many a discussion on here about who should actually do the role of VAR & it's been suggested many times that being a top flight referee does not automatically mean you will make a good VAR - Mr Coote appears to be proof of that fact!
This stupid requirement that you need to be able to pass a fitness test needs to be dropped, whether it's a PGMOL or FIFA rule. All the talent "sitting on the bench" of retired officials who are simply not this incompetent and can still give to the game and means our current on field officials are slightly less fatigued from the constant travelling.

The worrying thing is, Coote is saying if he had seen that happen as a referee in a game he wouldn't have sent off the player?  ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ???
« Last Edit: Mon 19 Oct 2020 15:16 by Matt »
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bmb

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Re: Merseyside Derby
« Reply #87 on: Mon 19 Oct 2020 15:18 »
I think Mr Coote needs sending on a VAR refresher course or perhaps more wisely kept right away from it. 

We've had many a discussion on here about who should actually do the role of VAR & it's been suggested many times that being a top flight referee does not automatically mean you will make a good VAR - Mr Coote appears to be proof of that fact!
This stupid requirement that you need to be able to pass a fitness test needs to be dropped, whether it's a PGMOL or FIFA rule. All the talent "sitting on the bench" of retired officials who are simply not this incompetent and can still give to the game and means our current on field officials are slightly less fatigued from the constant travelling.

Something most of us agree with.  It's not like with an AAR or 4O where there is a chance of having to take over as ref through an injury so I cannot understand that logic at all. Don't know who the ruling comes from to be honest but it's one of the less sensible ones shall we say!
Hajrá Lilák. Csak a Kispest. Hajrá Magyarok! Hajrá játékvezetői csapat! Soha ne add fel. Nincs sárga kérem!!! No Chris Kavanagh doesn't live in Ashton or even in the Greater Manchester area!!

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Re: Merseyside Derby
« Reply #88 on: Mon 19 Oct 2020 15:26 »
I think Mr Coote needs sending on a VAR refresher course or perhaps more wisely kept right away from it. 

We've had many a discussion on here about who should actually do the role of VAR & it's been suggested many times that being a top flight referee does not automatically mean you will make a good VAR - Mr Coote appears to be proof of that fact!
This stupid requirement that you need to be able to pass a fitness test needs to be dropped, whether it's a PGMOL or FIFA rule. All the talent "sitting on the bench" of retired officials who are simply not this incompetent and can still give to the game and means our current on field officials are slightly less fatigued from the constant travelling.

Something most of us agree with.  It's not like with an AAR or 4O where there is a chance of having to take over as ref through an injury so I cannot understand that logic at all. Don't know who the ruling comes from to be honest but it's one of the less sensible ones shall we say!

Isn't it to maintain their currency by being active officials, I'm sure that I asked and received a reply many moons ago?
But it doesn't appear to apply to the VAAR.  Who replaces the VAR if he/she gets and injury?
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At the going down of the sun and in the morning
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bmb

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Re: Merseyside Derby
« Reply #89 on: Mon 19 Oct 2020 15:30 »
I think Mr Coote needs sending on a VAR refresher course or perhaps more wisely kept right away from it. 

We've had many a discussion on here about who should actually do the role of VAR & it's been suggested many times that being a top flight referee does not automatically mean you will make a good VAR - Mr Coote appears to be proof of that fact!
This stupid requirement that you need to be able to pass a fitness test needs to be dropped, whether it's a PGMOL or FIFA rule. All the talent "sitting on the bench" of retired officials who are simply not this incompetent and can still give to the game and means our current on field officials are slightly less fatigued from the constant travelling.

Something most of us agree with.  It's not like with an AAR or 4O where there is a chance of having to take over as ref through an injury so I cannot understand that logic at all. Don't know who the ruling comes from to be honest but it's one of the less sensible ones shall we say!

Isn't it to maintain their currency by being active officials, I'm sure that I asked and received a reply many moons ago?
But it doesn't appear to apply to the VAAR.  Who replaces the VAR if he/she gets and injury?

I guess for FIFA/UEFA appointments they need to be current referees - fair point. Pretty sure UEFA could set up their own pool of non active VAR people though instead along with nations doing the same.
Hajrá Lilák. Csak a Kispest. Hajrá Magyarok! Hajrá játékvezetői csapat! Soha ne add fel. Nincs sárga kérem!!! No Chris Kavanagh doesn't live in Ashton or even in the Greater Manchester area!!