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Author Topic: Martin Atkinson, Villa v Palace  (Read 485 times)

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Acme Thunderer

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Martin Atkinson, Villa v Palace
« on: Mon 13 Jul 2020 09:29 »
I am obviously biased but I have to say I thought Palace were hard done by with an early goal ruled out for 'accidental handball' by Sakho when the TV replays showed that the ball hit his shoulder rather than upper arm. Peter Walton in The Times agrees and points out that the present interpretation of the law does not define where the shoulder ends and the arm begins, so it is up to the officials to make a subjective call. And the PL are not implementing the 'T-shirt line' to define where the shoulder ends until next season, so more reason for Villa to feel lucky. VAR was John Moss and in my view he was wrong in this instance. The goal looked good and should have been allowed. I have no problem with the red card shown after the final whistle to Benteke, a kick out at a Villa player ending Benteke's forgettable season prematurely.   

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AG1983

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Re: Martin Atkinson, Villa v Palace
« Reply #1 on: Mon 13 Jul 2020 09:40 »
I'm a Villa fan, and was absolutely amazed that Sakho's goal was ruled out. I was equally amazed (as has been noted on appts thread) that Moss was the VAR given he was the referee in the previous game giving a penalty that has been agreed shouldn't have been given (and changed the whole game). Was this call his way of evening the scores?

Moss was also kept busy, overruling the penalty given against Grealish. Don't have a problem with that one, with Grealish not helping himself with the extravagant way he fell to the floor. Subsequent review for potential penalty against Dann for handball. Whilst personally I don't like the handball rule, the way it is enforced I was surprised that it wasn't overturned and a penalty awarded.

From my perspective 1 out of 3 right from the VAR booth. Also struggle to see how Atkinson is supposed to justify the decisions to the players based on what he is told in his ear without using the monitor which would at least help sell the decision, and that he's in agreement.
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Acme Thunderer

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Re: Martin Atkinson, Villa v Palace
« Reply #2 on: Mon 13 Jul 2020 10:25 »
Good point about the monitor AG1983. Martin could and should have used the monitor for the Sakho goal that was disallowed for 'accidental handball', particularly as there was no query whatsoever about the validity of the goal from the players or indeed Martin himself. Comments (above) from Peter Walton suggest to me that current officials should be relieved of VAR duties and their place taken by former SG1 or SG2 refs such as Walton, Swarbrick and so on, as previously suggested on this site.
« Last Edit: Mon 13 Jul 2020 10:29 by Acme Thunderer »

ajb95

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Re: Martin Atkinson, Villa v Palace
« Reply #3 on: Mon 13 Jul 2020 10:42 »
If it came off the shoulder since when has that been handball?? Or are the rules now that any part of the arm from the neck to the fingers.
Ludicrous

reflector

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Re: Martin Atkinson, Villa v Palace
« Reply #4 on: Mon 13 Jul 2020 11:49 »
I'm a Villa fan, and was absolutely amazed that Sakho's goal was ruled out. I was equally amazed (as has been noted on appts thread) that Moss was the VAR given he was the referee in the previous game giving a penalty that has been agreed shouldn't have been given (and changed the whole game). Was this call his way of evening the scores?
The very reason why it's  unhealthy to have the same officials handling the same clubs too often, whether on field or in the Stockley Park bunker.  Although I have little time for Mr Moss, I am sure he is too experienced to be evening things up but it does put unnecessary  pressure on him and gives ammunition to those who think that he might.
reflector
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rustyref

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Re: Martin Atkinson, Villa v Palace
« Reply #5 on: Mon 13 Jul 2020 17:03 »
Under next season's laws there is no way that could be handball, but it is a lot less clear this season as to where the shoulder ends and the arm starts.  I think it probably did hit both shoulder and arm but I would certainly agree with the view that the attacker should get the benefit of any doubt when it is that tight.

Readingfan

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Re: Martin Atkinson, Villa v Palace
« Reply #6 on: Mon 13 Jul 2020 17:37 »
New clarification for handball next season should help a bit although I'm sure there will still be times the pictures are inconclusive.

Martin Atkinson was never going to look at the monitor for the disallowed goal this season under PGMO directives but the point about being able to explain to players is a good one - I was watching Inside Video Review recently and by going to the monitor for penalty encroachment the referee was able to explain to the players exactly where the goalkeeper was positioned - about 4 mins 30 here

I think Jon Moss reversing the Aston Villa penalty decision was one of the best VAR decisions in the PL this season and an example of why I don't think a strict time limit would work because it took a bit of time to find the best camera angle to show it.

Leggy

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Re: Martin Atkinson, Villa v Palace
« Reply #7 on: Mon 13 Jul 2020 18:30 »
New clarification for handball next season should help a bit although I'm sure there will still be times the pictures are inconclusive.

Martin Atkinson was never going to look at the monitor for the disallowed goal this season under PGMO directives but the point about being able to explain to players is a good one - I was watching Inside Video Review recently and by going to the monitor for penalty encroachment the referee was able to explain to the players exactly where the goalkeeper was positioned - about 4 mins 30 here

I think Jon Moss reversing the Aston Villa penalty decision was one of the best VAR decisions in the PL this season and an example of why I don't think a strict time limit would work because it took a bit of time to find the best camera angle to show it.


There will still be doubt / controversy next season.  As the "line" is not drawn people sill see an incident and some will say it is one side of the "tee-shirt line" and other will call it the other way.  Its the same with offside - if you give the attacker (say) six inches of leeway, then there will always be an offside where the attacker is 6.01 inches offside.

Wherever you draw the line - unless you draw an actual and real line - there will be controversy.

guest379

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Re: Martin Atkinson, Villa v Palace
« Reply #8 on: Mon 13 Jul 2020 20:27 »
Let's start with the positive.  Great call to rule out the Villa penalty as Grealish initiated the contact.  Would love to see this overrule way more than it currently happens.  Makes it strange the same referee on the VAR, Mr Moss, decided Fernandes was fouled at Villa Park on Thursday night!

The Sakho handball is a diabolical joke.  Not one person honestly thinks that's handball - it hits his shoulder, maybe even a part of his back for goodness sake!  What was Mr Moss looking at ?????

Readingfan

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Re: Martin Atkinson, Villa v Palace
« Reply #9 on: Mon 13 Jul 2020 22:53 »
It was interesting to hear Dermot Gallagher say on Sky that the part of his body he pointed to when trying to say the goal should stand was actually considered part of the arm so perhaps he undid himself after scoring!