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Author Topic: Martin Atkinson Man Utd vs Crystal Palace  (Read 1480 times)

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Readingfan

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For me the issue isn't the retake, which is a factual decision, but the initial penalty. I really worry that if that is the measure by which handball is now judged, we're heading for a similar approach to in UEFA football where pretty much every time it hits a hand it's handball, which doesn't sit well with me. The problem is that most handballs look worse in super slow motion and there's no allowance for full speed natural body movements when running, jumping or tackling.

As far as I can tell, the whole idea is that there's a universal approach and that's what the Premier League have signed up to - which is what loads of people were calling for last season. 'Why does the Premier League think it knows best? etc.'

If it's given in the CL it will also be givne in the PL this season.

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Readingfan

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It was clearly stated before start of season no tolerance would be applied for keepers at penalties. Correct decision. First of many.n

Might be correct by law but not when he was barely off his line , I can guarantee you that you will see plenty of incidents this season where goalkeepers are well off their line on a penalty kick and the save stands

Well those would be incorrect decisions so we can criticise if that happens but it's a factual decision so I don't think it generally will. This is something FIFA have requested and the PL have signed up to - TVOS is right that we've seen things like grappling in penalty areas changed after a few weeks but I don't see them doing that this season because it's black and white and like offside last season you can't suddenly change once the season has started.


Readingfan

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And yet a more clear cut handball goes unpunished in the arsenal - West Ham game...

Watching on MOTD, I think the ball hit the body too high up to be handball under the new laws.

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Leggy

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Sorry, the game is a travesty if youíre going to penalise goalkeepers for that!
No advantage gained whatsoever and it is physically impossible for a goalkeeper to stay on his line and dive.
Theyíd be as well starting two yards behind the line if this is the precedent!!

"it is physically impossible for a goalkeeper to stay on his line and dive"

Errr - no it is not.
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Ref Fan

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And yet a more clear cut handball goes unpunished in the arsenal - West Ham game...

Watching on MOTD, I think the ball hit the body too high up to be handball under the new laws.

I thought this was a tough one.  Player looked as if he was intending to head the ball; his arm wasn't fully outstretched, more bent at the elbow; and where it actually struck was hard to tell.  The problem is the ball isn't like an arrow point, it's round with a circumference and therefore covers a wider area.

I'm not sure Oliver even saw it. There was no appeal as far as I could see so no action to denote 'no penalty'.  I suspect if Oliver had awarded the penalty it wouldn't have been overruled either.  Umpire's call you might say.

The Lindelof incident could have fallen into the same category but Moss presumably deemed it 'clear and obvious' and advised Atkinson to view the monitor.  I wonder if we'll see many incidents where a referee having been so advised will stick to his original decision, the onfield referee being the final arbiter.

Leggy

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Not sure about the penalty -Lindelof is very close to Zaha, 1 yard away, and natural movement of his arm when running back.
The handball rule is an absolute con; we are going to see so many ridiculous handballs this season
I'm sorry - in what godly earth, is an arm bent at head height "natural" ?

If you look at it again his hand isnít at head height. When you run your arms are going to come up naturally, you canít run with your arms by your side

Agree.  Before the law-makers start quoting "natural / un-natural positions" and "enlarging the body silhoulette" they should engage bio-mechanic experts to determine - in all playing situations (running / stretching / jumping / falling) - what is / is not natural.

We are rapidly approaching the stage where a forward with not reasonable attacking option will just aim the ball at the defender's body in the hope of securing a penalty kick.  It has been a legitimate tactic in hockey with penalty corners for some years now ...... watch this space!
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ajb95

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A very good match by David Coote this lunchtime - until a shocking decision for the handball against Spurs. How that can be handball is beyond me.
Who was the VAR clown advising him to take a look!?
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rustyref

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His arm was out from the body.  The ball hit it, that will always be given as a penalty under the new law.

Don't agree with it personally, but the officials can only follow the current law and we are now seeing handball penalties given that wouldn't have been given last season.  Everyone just needs to get used to it as it won't be changing.
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Readingfan

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A very good match by David Coote this lunchtime - until a shocking decision for the handball against Spurs. How that can be handball is beyond me.
Who was the VAR clown advising him to take a look!?

Chris Kavanagh was the VAR but I don't think it matters - I'm sure other VARs/referees will give penalties for that sort of things next week or the week after.

I agree Coote did well.


ajb95

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His arm was out from the body.  The ball hit it, that will always be given as a penalty under the new law.

Don't agree with it personally, but the officials can only follow the current law and we are now seeing handball penalties given that wouldn't have been given last season.  Everyone just needs to get used to it as it won't be changing.

Who is making these laws?? I know itís IFAB on advice from FIFA but is it lead by ex referees etc.??
Surely someone with a brain cell has got to be looking at this and canít be happy.
I know most football fans arenít and football is slowly losing a lot of interest!
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rustyref

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His arm was out from the body.  The ball hit it, that will always be given as a penalty under the new law.

Don't agree with it personally, but the officials can only follow the current law and we are now seeing handball penalties given that wouldn't have been given last season.  Everyone just needs to get used to it as it won't be changing.

Who is making these laws?? I know itís IFAB on advice from FIFA but is it lead by ex referees etc.??
Surely someone with a brain cell has got to be looking at this and canít be happy.
I know most football fans arenít and football is slowly losing a lot of interest!

Something I've said before, laws are made by people that haven't played football to any kind of level.  They probably think that you can run with your arms pinned by your side.

But once the laws are made all referees can do is apply them.
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Readingfan

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At least it has made handball more consistent. There used to be lots of discussion about whether an incident such as Trent Alexander-Arnold's handling last season agI do find it easier to judge a handball offence now, even if I don't personally agree.

It's basically gone in the PL from a player getting a lot of the benefit of the doubt if the ball hit their hand to them being given very little. A lot was required for handball in England previously, but now if the ball hits your hand it's likely to be penalised if VAR is in use unless your hand is very close to your body.

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Ashington46

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At least it has made handball more consistent. There used to be lots of discussion about whether an incident such as Trent Alexander-Arnold's handling last season agI do find it easier to judge a handball offence now, even if I don't personally agree.

It's basically gone in the PL from a player getting a lot of the benefit of the doubt if the ball hit their hand to them being given very little. A lot was required for handball in England previously, but now if the ball hits your hand it's likely to be penalised if VAR is in use unless your hand is very close to your body.

Perhaps it makes it more consistent if the offence happens in the penalty area, however, there were several instances of handball, similar to those leading to penalties in the games discussed, which were committed in general play and these were not penalised. 

The question which then arises is are we playing to different laws in the penalty area to those used on the rest of the field because some are covered by VAR but others are not?
Referee's decision used to be final!
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ajb95

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At least it has made handball more consistent. There used to be lots of discussion about whether an incident such as Trent Alexander-Arnold's handling last season agI do find it easier to judge a handball offence now, even if I don't personally agree.

It's basically gone in the PL from a player getting a lot of the benefit of the doubt if the ball hit their hand to them being given very little. A lot was required for handball in England previously, but now if the ball hits your hand it's likely to be penalised if VAR is in use unless your hand is very close to your body.

Perhaps it makes it more consistent if the offence happens in the penalty area, however, there were several instances of handball, similar to those leading to penalties in the games discussed, which were committed in general play and these were not penalised. 

The question which then arises is are we playing to different laws in the penalty area to those used on the rest of the field because some are covered by VAR but others are not?

Thatís right Ashington

As as Iím aware the LOTG still states that handball must be deliberate - as it has been for an age

Readingfan

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At least it has made handball more consistent. There used to be lots of discussion about whether an incident such as Trent Alexander-Arnold's handling last season agI do find it easier to judge a handball offence now, even if I don't personally agree.

It's basically gone in the PL from a player getting a lot of the benefit of the doubt if the ball hit their hand to them being given very little. A lot was required for handball in England previously, but now if the ball hits your hand it's likely to be penalised if VAR is in use unless your hand is very close to your body.

Perhaps it makes it more consistent if the offence happens in the penalty area, however, there were several instances of handball, similar to those leading to penalties in the games discussed, which were committed in general play and these were not penalised. 

The question which then arises is are we playing to different laws in the penalty area to those used on the rest of the field because some are covered by VAR but others are not?

Thatís right Ashington

As as Iím aware the LOTG still states that handball must be deliberate - as it has been for an age

Deliberate handball is still an offence - but there are many other handball offences where 'deliberate' is not used (as Mark Clattenburg said in a recent Daily Mail article)

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