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Author Topic: M OLIVER - Tottenham v Chelsea EFL Cup  (Read 1447 times)

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TheThingFromLewes

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M OLIVER - Tottenham v Chelsea EFL Cup
« on: Tue 08 Jan 2019 20:30 »
Good use of VAR by the team, a tight call for whether it was offside but definitely a penalty and a card for Kepa.

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DublinRef

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Re: M OLIVER - Tottenham v Chelsea EFL Cup
« Reply #1 on: Tue 08 Jan 2019 20:38 »
Good use of VAR by the team, a tight call for whether it was offside but definitely a penalty and a card for Kepa.

Agreed. I'm assuming Oliver was going to award the penalty anyway had there been no flag which is why he didn't look at the screen as per the protocol as I understand it? He did look as if he was about to point to the spot.

Additionally thought he gave a fantastic display of calm, controlled and authoritative body language and communication, superbly managed.

TheThingFromLewes

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Re: M OLIVER - Tottenham v Chelsea EFL Cup
« Reply #2 on: Tue 08 Jan 2019 21:29 »
Good use of VAR by the team, a tight call for whether it was offside but definitely a penalty and a card for Kepa.

Agreed. I'm assuming Oliver was going to award the penalty anyway had there been no flag which is why he didn't look at the screen as per the protocol as I understand it? He did look as if he was about to point to the spot.

Additionally thought he gave a fantastic display of calm, controlled and authoritative body language and communication, superbly managed.

Absolutely. Incidentally all the FIFA referees apart from Kavanagh are out of commission from 27 Jan to Feb 1 in Portugal doing a VAR course ahead of the CL introduction of the technology.
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DublinRef

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Re: M OLIVER - Tottenham v Chelsea EFL Cup
« Reply #3 on: Tue 08 Jan 2019 21:39 »
Good use of VAR by the team, a tight call for whether it was offside but definitely a penalty and a card for Kepa.

Agreed. I'm assuming Oliver was going to award the penalty anyway had there been no flag which is why he didn't look at the screen as per the protocol as I understand it? He did look as if he was about to point to the spot.

Additionally thought he gave a fantastic display of calm, controlled and authoritative body language and communication, superbly managed.

Absolutely. Incidentally all the FIFA referees apart from Kavanagh are out of commission from 27 Jan to Feb 1 in Portugal doing a VAR course ahead of the CL introduction of the technology.

I think Kavanagh is on an introductory course that overlaps with those dates

http://kronikasedziowska.blogspot.com/2018/12/28th-introductory-course-for.html
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Ashington46

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Re: M OLIVER - Tottenham v Chelsea EFL Cup
« Reply #4 on: Tue 08 Jan 2019 22:06 »
I thought that Michael Oliver and his team were superb tonight and this helped the game to flow and it was a decent match for the neutral fan.
His fitness and positioning were superb and I also thought that the penalty was going to be awarded and, although I am not a fan of VAR, it was correct in this case.
Referee's decision used to be final!

QuoCob

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Re: M OLIVER - Tottenham v Chelsea EFL Cup
« Reply #5 on: Tue 08 Jan 2019 23:17 »
I would have liked to have seen the view along the line for the offside, Harry Kane's upper body appeared to be leant over the virtual line drawn between the feet of both defender and attacker?
If the VAR crew didn't have that and didn't have the same view as the AR, have they guessed?
“They shall grow not old as we that are left grow old:
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Readingfan

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Re: M OLIVER - Tottenham v Chelsea EFL Cup
« Reply #6 on: Tue 08 Jan 2019 23:22 »
I think it was the correct decision.

I think they probably could have got to the decision quicker - they seemed to look at the foul for the penalty four or five times when it was clear at first viewing, although I guess they perhaps had to consider if it was DOGSO or if the ball was still in play, etc.

rustyref

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Re: M OLIVER - Tottenham v Chelsea EFL Cup
« Reply #7 on: Tue 08 Jan 2019 23:24 »
I think that was pretty quick, 90 seconds considering they were looking at both offside and a penalty.  That was a great example of VAR for me.

QuoCob

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Re: M OLIVER - Tottenham v Chelsea EFL Cup
« Reply #8 on: Tue 08 Jan 2019 23:27 »
I think it was the correct decision.

I think they probably could have got to the decision quicker - they seemed to look at the foul for the penalty four or five times when it was clear at first viewing, although I guess they perhaps had to consider if it was DOGSO or if the ball was still in play, etc.

Might have been, but we/they haven't been given the along the line view so how could they assuredly overrule the original decision by the AR?
“They shall grow not old as we that are left grow old:
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bmb

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Re: M OLIVER - Tottenham v Chelsea EFL Cup
« Reply #9 on: Wed 09 Jan 2019 00:12 »
I would have liked to have seen the view along the line for the offside, Harry Kane's upper body appeared to be leant over the virtual line drawn between the feet of both defender and attacker?
If the VAR crew didn't have that and didn't have the same view as the AR, have they guessed?

From twitter: https://twitter.com/kash1905ifb/status/1082765605067997185

Looks offside to me.  AR seems to be about 2/3 feet ahead of the last defender. I wasn't watching so he may well have been in line originally if the defenders then moved upfield a bit, leaving him slightly ahead of them.
« Last Edit: Wed 09 Jan 2019 00:14 by bmb »
Hajrá Lilák. Csak a Kispest. Hajrá Magyarok! Hajrá játékvezetői csapat! Soha ne add fel. Nincs sárga kérem!!! No Chris Kavanagh doesn't live in Ashton or even in the Greater Manchester area!!

bmb

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Re: M OLIVER - Tottenham v Chelsea EFL Cup
« Reply #10 on: Wed 09 Jan 2019 00:28 »
Good use of VAR by the team, a tight call for whether it was offside but definitely a penalty and a card for Kepa.

Agreed. I'm assuming Oliver was going to award the penalty anyway had there been no flag which is why he didn't look at the screen as per the protocol as I understand it? He did look as if he was about to point to the spot.

Additionally thought he gave a fantastic display of calm, controlled and authoritative body language and communication, superbly managed.

Absolutely. Incidentally all the FIFA referees apart from Kavanagh are out of commission from 27 Jan to Feb 1 in Portugal doing a VAR course ahead of the CL introduction of the technology.

Possibly will count most of the Hungarian FIFA refs out of the 1st day back from the winter break then, which will cause a bit of a headache for Mr Puhl.  Berke will have travelled back from the introductory course 6 days before but the other 5 only travel back the day before so it could be interesting to see who gets those 1st games. One of the huge Budapest derby matches as well in that match day, Ferencváros v Honvéd, I'd describe it as the equivalent of the North London derby & it tends to be a very difficult game to put it politely. There's also Videoton v Felcsút, which although is technically not a derby is played as if it were one, it's normally a very fiesty match to put it mildly & the last time they played it all kicked off in the technical area at the end of the game between both benches & sets of players.  4O got pushed, one of the AARs was pushed twice, Felcsút's manager was pushed to the floor, and it carried on down the tunnel and in the dressing room area!
Hajrá Lilák. Csak a Kispest. Hajrá Magyarok! Hajrá játékvezetői csapat! Soha ne add fel. Nincs sárga kérem!!! No Chris Kavanagh doesn't live in Ashton or even in the Greater Manchester area!!

bruntyboy

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Re: M OLIVER - Tottenham v Chelsea EFL Cup
« Reply #11 on: Wed 09 Jan 2019 00:30 »
I would have liked to have seen the view along the line for the offside, Harry Kane's upper body appeared to be leant over the virtual line drawn between the feet of both defender and attacker?
If the VAR crew didn't have that and didn't have the same view as the AR, have they guessed?

From twitter: https://twitter.com/kash1905ifb/status/1082765605067997185

Looks offside to me.  AR seems to be about 2/3 feet ahead of the last defender. I wasn't watching so he may well have been in line originally if the defenders then moved upfield a bit, leaving him slightly ahead of them.

Oh dear. I'm with QuoCob. If they don't have an "along the line" camera angle and it is a tight call then surely the AR's decision should stand assuming the AR is not significantly out of position.
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bruntyboy

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Re: M OLIVER - Tottenham v Chelsea EFL Cup
« Reply #12 on: Wed 09 Jan 2019 00:41 »
No time added on for the final substitution whihc happened during the 3 added minutes - despite Eriksen taking some time to leave the pitch.

RCG

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Re: M OLIVER - Tottenham v Chelsea EFL Cup
« Reply #13 on: Wed 09 Jan 2019 07:43 »
The UEFA course is not for all FIFA refs (from the list on Law5blog only Kassai is on there). It is for those referees who have been preselected to be involved in the knock out games, either as referees or VAR. I think Oliver, Taylor and Pawson will get games in the middle, as well as VAR, with Atwell and Tierney used as VAR.
Kavanagh is on the new refs course at same time
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Ref Fan

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Re: M OLIVER - Tottenham v Chelsea EFL Cup
« Reply #14 on: Wed 09 Jan 2019 09:40 »
In that twitter picture, apart from being a wrong angle, where is the ball?  Is that the exact moment the ball was played?

I see Clattenburg thinks the right decision was reached but opines that the AR should keep their flag down for tight offsides like that, knowing that if anything develops VAR will look at it anyway.  Believing it was onside, he also points out that without VAR, Oliver would have accepted the flag and the wrong decision reached.