Author Topic: M OLIVER - Man U v Aston Villa  (Read 1014 times)

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TheThingFromLewes

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M OLIVER - Man U v Aston Villa
« on: Mon 10 Jan 2022 21:11 »
Overall I think the correct decision after VAR came in when Ramsey blocked off Cavani.

McGinn is losing the plot this evening, however Fernandes should have been in the book by now after numerous fouls.

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Guidedog

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Re: M OLIVER - Man U v Aston Villa
« Reply #1 on: Mon 10 Jan 2022 22:02 »
Not one of Oliverís best evenings. I hate to see a referee putting his arm on a players shoulder, it looks too matey. A nd then a player goes to take a corner and stops play to do up his laces in my book is deliberate time wasting and should be a caution, but just a minute I think he has already been cautioned once so better just let him do it.
Still hate VAR Ö.how long did it take ?
If the goal is to be disallowed because of a block why is every corner not reviewed for shirt holding and arm pulling ?
And should Shaw not have had a second caution for drawing blood with his arm or hand on the grounds that he carelessly endangered the safety of an opponent?
All in all I will stick to lower or non league football without all the review problems and fifa personality referees, although we still get our share of FA employed buffoons,
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RCG

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Re: M OLIVER - Man U v Aston Villa
« Reply #2 on: Mon 10 Jan 2022 22:09 »
"Fifa personality" - not exactly sure what you mean by that but one thing I can assure you is that Michael Oliver is one of the most well grounded, approachable people. Confident yes, arrogant definitely not.

Plus at senior level the FA are not the employers, just this weekend they are the appointing body.
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Scally Bob

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Re: M OLIVER - Man U v Aston Villa
« Reply #3 on: Mon 10 Jan 2022 22:12 »
Cavani was never going to get anywhere the ball and although the Villa player was in an offside position he didnít stop Cavani playing it.
« Last Edit: Mon 10 Jan 2022 22:14 by Scally Bob »
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Comeonref

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Re: M OLIVER - Man U v Aston Villa
« Reply #4 on: Mon 10 Jan 2022 22:14 »
If you see the camera behind the goal. Oliver is looking at the incident and says no. So how can it be a deliberate error. Typical home decision for United. Not his best decision
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Ashington46

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Re: M OLIVER - Man U v Aston Villa
« Reply #5 on: Mon 10 Jan 2022 22:17 »
Guidedog-- it is so easy to criticise officials, however, if you want to find fault with the Premeir League and want a good reason for not watching it, then blame the players! That game tonight was full of players trying to con the officials by whatever means possible and there is no directive to sort this out. They consistently bend the Laws in order to benefit, they dive around with the slightest touch, they hold their faces when no contacyt has been made, they consistently place the ball outside of the quadrant at corners with no part of the ball overhanging etc.,etc.
Players have always tried to gain advantages, however, it is ridiculous just how far they are prepared to go these days.

I just hope that this does not spread to the lower divisions, however, I have seen a few games recently where these bad trends are coming into the game. Thankfully they do not have to contend with VAR and the opinion of another human being, the officials seem to do their job very well in the majority of cases. The game  at the top level is becoming unwatchable.
Referee's decision used to be final!
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ajb95

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Re: M OLIVER - Man U v Aston Villa
« Reply #6 on: Mon 10 Jan 2022 22:26 »
Only saw the second half, but how long did that VAR review take? Ridiculous. If it was taking that long then it isnít a clear and obvious error

Think both Shaw and McGinn were lucky it was a cup game as I think both would have been off had it been a league game
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Scally Bob

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Re: M OLIVER - Man U v Aston Villa
« Reply #7 on: Mon 10 Jan 2022 22:34 »
Only saw the second half, but how long did that VAR review take? Ridiculous. If it was taking that long then it isnít a clear and obvious error

Think both Shaw and McGinn were lucky it was a cup game as I think both would have been off had it been a league game
The Laws donít change for different competitions. Shaw should have been cautioned long before he was either for the reckless challenge on the touch line or for persistent infringement. Fernandes should also have been cautioned much earlier.

Michael Oliver is our best referee but I donít think tonight was his usual standard.
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Claretman

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Re: M OLIVER - Man U v Aston Villa
« Reply #8 on: Mon 10 Jan 2022 22:35 »
I would have to say not Mr Oliverís finest game, thought he was far too lenient early in the game.
Mc Ginn was lucky not to receive a yellow card at least as the red mist came down, well at least it wont come down on the field next saturday as both he and mr shaw are sitting that one out.
Fernandes yet again seems to get away with everything, fouls, verbals etc.

With regard to the first disallowed goal it could be argued that Cavani ran into Ramsey, it could be argued that Cavani Was never going to get the ball. However the men that matter didnt see it in those ways, albeit Oliver didnt see the incident initially and neither did th ar flag.
Three and a half minutes to come to a decision is a long time.

Second disallowed goal clearly offside ings.

If the flailing arm by shaw in the last few minutes is deemed a yellow card offence a penalty should have resulted too.

All in all my team played well but as they couldnt score a legal goal, didnt deserve to win.
Not the first time we have left Old Trafford frustrated at decisions and i am sure we arent the only ones. We did win there earlier in the season lightening wasnt going to strike twice.

Have said it before on other threads but i like shearer, lineker and richards am not in favour of the use
Of var unless all games in the same round use var from fair playing field point of view.

As for the referee placing his arms on a playerís shoulder i am not in favour.
Players should not touch the referee and vice versa.

« Last Edit: Mon 10 Jan 2022 22:40 by Claretman »
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rustyref

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Re: M OLIVER - Man U v Aston Villa
« Reply #9 on: Mon 10 Jan 2022 22:40 »
Only saw the second half, but how long did that VAR review take? Ridiculous. If it was taking that long then it isnít a clear and obvious error

That's because there were multiple checks, normally a VAR check averages a minute, but there were 4 things to check here.

- Was the original pass offside
- Did Watkins touch the ball which would have made Ings offside.  I actually think he might have as the ball seems to deviate even if slightly
- Did it strike Ings's arm as he scored
- Was there a foul by Ramsey on Cavani as he blocked him off

In the end they went for something completely different, and that was Ramsey was in an offside position as the cross was made and interfered with an opponent when he blocked off Cavani.  Not 100% sure I agree with their decision as it would only be offside if he prevented Cavani from playing the ball, and he had no chance of getting even close to it.
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rustyref

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Re: M OLIVER - Man U v Aston Villa
« Reply #10 on: Mon 10 Jan 2022 22:44 »
With regard to the first disallowed goal it could be argued that Cavani ran into Ramsey, it could be argued that Cavani Was never going to get the ball. However the men that matter didnt see it in those ways, albeit Oliver didnt see the incident initially and neither did th ar flag.
Three and a half minutes to come to a decision is a long time.

It was given for offside by Ramsey as Oliver raised his arm after giving it, it wasn't for any potential foul.  Therefore Oliver couldn't give it real time as he isn't looking for offsides, and it is a long way from the AR for him to determine the contact.

As I said in the earlier post, I am far from sure it should have been disallowed, but I can just about see why it was.

doowe

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Re: M OLIVER - Man U v Aston Villa
« Reply #11 on: Mon 10 Jan 2022 22:45 »
After Oliver reviewed the incident and disallowed the Ďgoalí, he clearly raised his arm to restart the game with an indirect free kick. Why should it take over 3 minutes to judge an offside or am I missing something?

Edit We must have posted together Rustyref

Claretman

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Re: M OLIVER - Man U v Aston Villa
« Reply #12 on: Mon 10 Jan 2022 22:55 »
With regard to the first disallowed goal it could be argued that Cavani ran into Ramsey, it could be argued that Cavani Was never going to get the ball. However the men that matter didnt see it in those ways, albeit Oliver didnt see the incident initially and neither did th ar flag.
Three and a half minutes to come to a decision is a long time.

It was given for offside by Ramsey as Oliver raised his arm after giving it, it wasn't for any potential foul.  Therefore Oliver couldn't give it real time as he isn't looking for offsides, and it is a long way from the AR for him to determine the contact.

As I said in the earlier post, I am far from sure it should have been disallowed, but I can just about see why it was.
But unless Ramsey committed a foul and prevented Cavani getting to the ball because of the foul, which is debatable, He could not be given offside as he didnt play the ball and wasnt interfering with play.
Whether watkins touched the ball is another matter but the ball didnt seem to move in its trajectory as us cricket fans would say.

I cant make up my mind whether ramsay stopped cavani playing the ball or if watkins touched it also rustyref but perhaps oliver gave an indirect free kick for obstruction rather than offside.
« Last Edit: Mon 10 Jan 2022 23:02 by Claretman »

Ref Fan

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Re: M OLIVER - Man U v Aston Villa
« Reply #13 on: Mon 10 Jan 2022 23:05 »
Is the referee only sent to the monitor for an offside decision if it's a judgement as to whether a player is interfering - possibly obscuring a goalkeeper's view or in this case assessed as preventing an opponent getting to the ball?  Must admit when I saw Oliver go to the screen I assumed initially it was for a foul on Cavani, which turned out to be not so.

I wasn't conscious of potential pi by Shaw before he was cautioned but I agree Fernandes and the Villa player were fortunate.

Claretman

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Re: M OLIVER - Man U v Aston Villa
« Reply #14 on: Mon 10 Jan 2022 23:12 »
Is the referee only sent to the monitor for an offside decision if it's a judgement as to whether a player is interfering - possibly obscuring a goalkeeper's view or in this case assessed as preventing an opponent getting to the ball?  Must admit when I saw Oliver go to the screen I assumed initially it was for a foul on Cavani, which turned out to be not so.

I wasn't conscious of potential pi by Shaw before he was cautioned but I agree Fernandes and the Villa player were fortunate.
The more i think about this and var protocol i think oliver has given an indirect free kick against
Ramsey for obstruction on cavani
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