Author Topic: M OLIVER - Leeds v West Ham (Read 1037 times)

TheThingFromLewes · « **on:** Fri 11 Dec 2020 20:08 »

I may be wrong or this rule doesn’t apply in England but if the keeper comes off the line and saves a penalty, it’s definitely retaken... but it is not a caution for the keeper for doing so???

If that’s the case, Fabianski would be getting a second yellow for it following the caution for the foul and then dismissed.

bmb · « **Reply #1 on:** Fri 11 Dec 2020 20:15 »

I believe the current situation is if he comes off the line once then he gets a warning and the penalty retaken. If he were then to come off of his line again for the retake then he would get a yellow card.

Carter · « **Reply #2 on:** Fri 11 Dec 2020 20:50 »

Well he has proved inept at keeping time, along woth almost all of his colleagues

4 mins from penalty awarded to the retake.
he adds 2 mins then only plays 1min 45 secs.

I do despair with so called professionals who cant keep the appropriate time in a game

Irishref1985 · « **Reply #3 on:** Fri 11 Dec 2020 21:35 »

Not a great display from Michael Oliver. A couple of blatant yellow cards not given. Stuart Dallas pulls a player clearly back and no yellow.

TheThingFromLewes · « **Reply #4 on:** Fri 11 Dec 2020 22:25 »

Certainly not the polished article from Oliver this evening..... but everyone has off days so can’t grumble too much....

Ashington46 · « **Reply #5 on:** Fri 11 Dec 2020 22:37 »

Quote from: Irishref1985 on Fri 11 Dec 2020 21:35

Not a great display from Michael Oliver. A couple of blatant yellow cards not given. Stuart Dallas pulls a player clearly back and no yellow.

No, no. You only give cards to Leeds players as an absolute last resort, particularly if they are losing, because their fans will all be up in arms complaining that the world is against them.
Did you see the way Alioski was complaining when he was cautioned? Simple yellow, as were the cards for Fabanski and Noble and there was really nothing of any note to mention, although in the modern game, there were one or two players lucky because they made contact with their opponent and should probably have been cautioned for it.

Decent game, not spoiled by the officials or VAR ---why complain?

bmb · « **Reply #6 on:** Fri 11 Dec 2020 23:02 »

Quote from: Irishref1985 on Fri 11 Dec 2020 21:35

Not a great display from Michael Oliver.

Quote from: TheThingFromLewes on Fri 11 Dec 2020 22:25

Certainly not the polished article from Oliver this evening..... but everyone has off days so can’t grumble too much....

I can't say I am surprised. The PGMOL has given him a ridiculous schedule on top of a busy UEFA schedule. He's probably mentally and physically shattered. Rest, recuperation and a home cooked meal with your family is just as important for pre-match preparation as maintaining fitness and researching the teams you will be refereeing. International travel is pretty messed up right now, Pawsons team didn't get back home until around midnight on Friday after their Thurs eve game, they're normally back around lunchtime. Those extra few hours soon tot up, along with the disruption to regular training schedules, hotel/airport food, 3/4 flights taken instead of just 1 because of reduced flight schedules & various countries not accepting flights from various others right now - it's mad the schedule he has been on.

I didn't watch I was instead watching a horror show at the Szusza Ferenc Stadion! My trauma is very real!

badref · « **Reply #7 on:** Sat 12 Dec 2020 01:07 »

What do you think of the 'off the line' retake law generally?

I personally feel like it is really harsh that the striker gets another free go at it when the goalie is only minimally off the line when the ball is kicked. I'd imagine it's pretty difficult for a goalkeeper to remain on the line when the ball is kicked, your natural movement is to want to dive forward slightly. He was realistically probably only off the line by 5 inches maximum...

I'd imagine if you looked at all previous penalties before VAR, 90%+ of goalies would have been at least slightly off the line when the ball was kicked and would have resulted in a huge amount of penalties retaken if they were looking at it in depth like they are today.

Failed Ref · « **Reply #8 on:** Sat 12 Dec 2020 01:46 »

Decent game by the referee, nothing to get worked up about. The VAR issue regarding the goalkeeper off his line is a matter of fact. Keeper off line, kick retaken. Simple. There would have been much more controversy had the kick not been retaken. If anything, I think Fabianski was fortunate not to get a second card for disputing the decision and delaying the retake but then I am old school!
As for yellow cards for pulling a player back or not as the case may be, it appears to me that many officials are inconsistent in this respect. This particularly seems to be the case when a player is already on a yellow. Common sense, trying to keep it 11 v 11? Game tonight did not need yellow cards imho. A good game, entertaining and worth watching so therefore why yellows? Consistency I hear. Maybe. VAR was introduced for consistency of decisions but look what the effect of it is.
Good game ref. Tiredness does not come into it based on what I observed.

Ref Fan · « **Reply #9 on:** Sat 12 Dec 2020 08:59 »

Like others, I've been disappointed that there have been instances recently where Michael Oliver has not been up to his own very high standards as a referee and on a couple of occasions as VAR. However, having watched last night's game, I'm surprised at some of the criticism aimed at him. For the most part it was a decent game to watch and apart from the too brief added time in the first half saw nothing to indicate Oliver was poor. Quite the opposite in fact, as I thought he and his team helped to make it an entertaining spectacle. The YCs that were issued were justified but there was nothing else that struck me where a degree of 'common sense' in not booking players was wrong. Also of note was that he was praised at least a couple of times by the commentator for good refereeing when trying to play advantage but then bringing play back for the foul. Commentators are not always generous about referees and their decisions.

It's strange how we view things differently but I was relieved to see him back to what I felt was more like his normal form.

ajb95 · « **Reply #10 on:** Sat 12 Dec 2020 09:31 »

Quote from: badref on Sat 12 Dec 2020 01:07

What do you think of the 'off the line' retake law generally?

I personally feel like it is really harsh that the striker gets another free go at it when the goalie is only minimally off the line when the ball is kicked. I'd imagine it's pretty difficult for a goalkeeper to remain on the line when the ball is kicked, your natural movement is to want to dive forward slightly. He was realistically probably only off the line by 5 inches maximum...

I'd imagine if you looked at all previous penalties before VAR, 90%+ of goalies would have been at least slightly off the line when the ball was kicked and would have resulted in a huge amount of penalties retaken if they were looking at it in depth like they are today.

Exactly. It just seems to me that the penalty is retaken until it is scored. There is encroachment into the area but penalties are hardly ever retaken!

Failed Ref · « **Reply #11 on:** Sat 12 Dec 2020 09:53 »

Penalty Law is an ass unless I have missed materiality element. As written the penalty should have been retaken again for encroachment but would agree materiality should allow goal to stand. Goalkeeper encroachment is material I guess. Those mms are critical!

Leggy · « **Reply #12 on:** Sat 12 Dec 2020 13:12 »

I think the issue with a player pulling an opponent or grabbing a shirt is that there can be no doubt as to the player's intentions - and a caution is almost always the correct outcome.

With a foul tackle, there can be a case where the intention was to play the ball but that player's competence, timing and/or judgement is off and the result is a foul. A caution here is not inevitable, but could be the outcome.

And, yes, I do know that "intent" is no longer the critical criteria in determining a foul; but it does remain important when considering a caution.

On another matter, is there an argument for permitting the goal-keeper (as a penalty kick) to stand behind the goal-line before the kick is taken? This would allow movement so long as the goal-keeper - at the instant the kick is take - is not in front of the goal-line.

bmb · « **Reply #13 on:** Sat 12 Dec 2020 13:26 »

Quote from: Leggy on Sat 12 Dec 2020 13:12

On another matter, is there an argument for permitting the goal-keeper (as a penalty kick) to stand behind the goal-line before the kick is taken? This would allow movement so long as the goal-keeper - at the instant the kick is take - is not in front of the goal-line.

I like that idea. Gives them the opportunity to move, which is completely natural and instinctive and yet remain within the LOTG.

guest42 · « **Reply #14 on:** Sat 12 Dec 2020 14:41 »

Quote from: bmb on Sat 12 Dec 2020 13:26

Quote from: Leggy on Sat 12 Dec 2020 13:12
On another matter, is there an argument for permitting the goal-keeper (as a penalty kick) to stand behind the goal-line before the kick is taken? This would allow movement so long as the goal-keeper - at the instant the kick is take - is not in front of the goal-line.

I like that idea. Gives them the opportunity to move, which is completely natural and instinctive and yet remain within the LOTG.

Bring this in I say for all penalties

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Author Topic: M OLIVER - Leeds v West Ham (Read 1037 times)

TheThingFromLewes

M OLIVER - Leeds v West Ham

bmb

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Carter

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Irishref1985

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TheThingFromLewes

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