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Author Topic: M DEAN - Huddersfield v Burnley  (Read 762 times)

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TheThingFromLewes

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M DEAN - Huddersfield v Burnley
« on: Thu 03 Jan 2019 00:05 »
Disgusting challenge from Brady deservedly red carded, but the thing I really despise is his smiling after the challenge which could have broken the Huddersfield players’ ankle. Full marks to the card shark for binning him and Brady’s face after the red was brandished was a picture.

How quickly reactions change!!

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Re: M DEAN - Huddersfield v Burnley
« Reply #1 on: Thu 03 Jan 2019 03:33 »
Perhaps he could teach David Coote a thing or 2...
Hajrá Lilák. Csak a Kispest. Hajrá Magyarok! Hajrá játékvezetői csapat! Soha ne add fel. Nincs sárga kérem!!! No Chris Kavanagh doesn't live in Ashton or even in the Greater Manchester area!!

voice

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Re: M DEAN - Huddersfield v Burnley
« Reply #2 on: Thu 03 Jan 2019 10:50 »
Watched it on MOTD last night- great close up of Dean taking a moment or two's thinking time before, rightly, going to his back pocket

Acme Thunderer

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Re: M DEAN - Huddersfield v Burnley
« Reply #3 on: Thu 03 Jan 2019 11:07 »
I wouldn't disagree with the above posts, although it has been suggested that because Brady's feet were not off the ground, a yellow card would have sufficed. It will be interesting to see whether anything comes of this as we have seen red cards rescinded before for such incidents.

Apparent confusion about Schindler's sending off and his claim that he didn't actually know that he had been yellow carded before. I believe this comes down to players turning their backs on referees when they are being yellow carded, and I've always thought that the refs should ensure that players know that they have been carded before play continues. I think in this instance that the situation may have been exacerbated by Mike's use of cards (The Wirral card shark) and the fact that he seems to wave cards around without ensuring that players know that they have been carded. One for the PGMOL to look at with their refs I believe.

TheThingFromLewes

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Re: M DEAN - Huddersfield v Burnley
« Reply #4 on: Thu 03 Jan 2019 11:39 »
I wouldn't disagree with the above posts, although it has been suggested that because Brady's feet were not off the ground, a yellow card would have sufficed. It will be interesting to see whether anything comes of this as we have seen red cards rescinded before for such incidents.

Apparent confusion about Schindler's sending off and his claim that he didn't actually know that he had been yellow carded before. I believe this comes down to players turning their backs on referees when they are being yellow carded, and I've always thought that the refs should ensure that players know that they have been carded before play continues. I think in this instance that the situation may have been exacerbated by Mike's use of cards (The Wirral card shark) and the fact that he seems to wave cards around without ensuring that players know that they have been carded. One for the PGMOL to look at with their refs I believe.

I would slightly disagree with your assessment regarding players turning their backs... yes the referee shouldn't be waving cards around like Dowd was famous for, however the players shouldn't be turning their backs on referees as it is disrespectful... I remember the Ashley Cole v Mike Riley debacle at WHL many moons ago.

I would argue on the flip side that if the player can't be bothered to a degree to face the official when being carded, then I have no sympathy. That said, Duffy was cautioned by the card shark at AFCB and didn't realise either, so yes there is room for improvement.
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Grahamexref

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Re: M DEAN - Huddersfield v Burnley
« Reply #5 on: Thu 03 Jan 2019 11:49 »
I wouldn't disagree with the above posts, although it has been suggested that because Brady's feet were not off the ground, a yellow card would have sufficed. It will be interesting to see whether anything comes of this as we have seen red cards rescinded before for such incidents.

Apparent confusion about Schindler's sending off and his claim that he didn't actually know that he had been yellow carded before. I believe this comes down to players turning their backs on referees when they are being yellow carded, and I've always thought that the refs should ensure that players know that they have been carded before play continues. I think in this instance that the situation may have been exacerbated by Mike's use of cards (The Wirral card shark) and the fact that he seems to wave cards around without ensuring that players know that they have been carded. One for the PGMOL to look at with their refs I believe.
As a Claret supporter, who was at the match, I have to agree with the above comments; Brady's 'challenge' was deliberate, cynical and endangered his opponent and his 'smile' afterwards just compounded his cynical action !.
Your comment, AT, in regard to showing YCs is also most valid. As we all know, gone are the days when a referee would speak to a player, ascertain his name/number and verbally inform him that he was being cautioned; certainly a point which referees need to address. Perhaps with the 'comms system in operation, the referee could inform his 4thO that ' RED 6 has just been cautioned' and the 4thO could convey this to the technical area occupants to avoid confusion.........just a thought.

QuoCob

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Re: M DEAN - Huddersfield v Burnley
« Reply #6 on: Thu 03 Jan 2019 12:02 »
It looked like Schindler made the first tackle, heard the whistle for the foul and went to take up his defensive position. He wasn't expecting to be cautioned, didn't need to look at the referee so just got on with the game. The yellow card was waved at his back, from what looked like a bit of distance.
It is the referees responsibility to ensure that the player is 'administered' with the sanction. In this case it appears that this didn't happen.
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Ref Fan

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Re: M DEAN - Huddersfield v Burnley
« Reply #7 on: Thu 03 Jan 2019 12:09 »
Fair comments about players needing to know they have been cautioned but if a referee also points to the player when waving the card (Atkinson is very good at that) then I've little sympathy with players if they deliberately turn their backs.

Having watched the 25 minute highlights of various games I thought Mike Dean's was the most consistent and accomplished performance from what I saw.  Marriner and Coote missed straight Red Cards and Roger East was castigated by the commentator for not issuing a YC for a blatant dive.  I just can't see any argument against the Brady RC. His feet were off the ground, out of control and endangered his opponent.  Well done Mike Dean.

I thought the Doucoure challenge at Bournemouth was not dissimilar to Bailly's at OT on Sunday which Lee Mason sanctioned correctly with a RC
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QuoCob

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Re: M DEAN - Huddersfield v Burnley
« Reply #8 on: Thu 03 Jan 2019 12:15 »
He hasn't deliberately turned his back, he wasn't expecting any additional sanction. If the official is going to administer sanctions like that, they must at least establish eye contact. It's no use pointing at someone's back.
“They shall grow not old as we that are left grow old:
Age shall not weary them, nor the years condemn.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning
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Readingfan

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Re: M DEAN - Huddersfield v Burnley
« Reply #9 on: Thu 03 Jan 2019 13:08 »
I wouldn't disagree with the above posts, although it has been suggested that because Brady's feet were not off the ground, a yellow card would have sufficed. It will be interesting to see whether anything comes of this as we have seen red cards rescinded before for such incidents.

Apparent confusion about Schindler's sending off and his claim that he didn't actually know that he had been yellow carded before. I believe this comes down to players turning their backs on referees when they are being yellow carded, and I've always thought that the refs should ensure that players know that they have been carded before play continues. I think in this instance that the situation may have been exacerbated by Mike's use of cards (The Wirral card shark) and the fact that he seems to wave cards around without ensuring that players know that they have been carded. One for the PGMOL to look at with their refs I believe.

I would slightly disagree with your assessment regarding players turning their backs... yes the referee shouldn't be waving cards around like Dowd was famous for, however the players shouldn't be turning their backs on referees as it is disrespectful... I remember the Ashley Cole v Mike Riley debacle at WHL many moons ago.

I would argue on the flip side that if the player can't be bothered to a degree to face the official when being carded, then I have no sympathy. That said, Duffy was cautioned by the card shark at AFCB and didn't realise either, so yes there is room for improvement.

I think the Ashley Cole situation was different because he fully knew he was going to be cautioned and turning his back was a complete lack of respect.

In this case, I think the Huddersfield player was simply running back into position and wasn't expecting to be cautioned.

You can't expect every player to keep their full concentration on the referee for the entire 90 minutes. What if a referee is going to book a defender at the other end of the pitch after playing an advantage for a foul three minutes ago? Is it alright for him to just wave the yellow card in the defender's direction from 40 yards away and if the defender happens not to be looking then that's his fault?

I think Mike Dean is an excellent referee, and I thought he got both red cards correct last night, but the fact two players haven't realised they've been cautioned by him over the Christmas period suggests it would be worthwhile him working on his approach to this.

On another note, I think there have only been five  red cards in the 39 Premier League games since the 21st December - and Mike Dean has shown four of them!

Ref Fan

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Re: M DEAN - Huddersfield v Burnley
« Reply #10 on: Thu 03 Jan 2019 13:15 »
Much as I would like to think that the only reason players turned their back was because they are not expecting further sanction and are just anxious to get back into position, the cynic in me says it just ain't so.  That said, in this instance, it did appear that Schindler was genuinely shocked it was a second YC.  What isn't clear is whether some referees also verbally notify the player as they walk away that they are being cautioned - " Red No. 6 - yellow card" or is that  intended for his AR's and 4O?

Is it naive to think that team mates might also ensure a player knows he has been carded, especially if he's turned his back?  It's in their interest he doesn't get a 2nd YC.

Acme Thunderer

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Re: M DEAN - Huddersfield v Burnley
« Reply #11 on: Thu 03 Jan 2019 13:39 »
Much as I would like to think that the only reason players turned their back was because they are not expecting further sanction and are just anxious to get back into position, the cynic in me says it just ain't so.  That said, in this instance, it did appear that Schindler was genuinely shocked it was a second YC.  What isn't clear is whether some referees also verbally notify the player as they walk away that they are being cautioned - " Red No. 6 - yellow card" or is that  intended for his AR's and 4O?

Is it naive to think that team mates might also ensure a player knows he has been carded, especially if he's turned his back?  It's in their interest he doesn't get a 2nd YC.

I don't think it is naive to suggest that team mates should ensure that a player knows that he has been carded, but in the heat of a game, I don't think it is going to happen. You make a very valid point in your last sentence although whether Schindler would have opted out of the yellow card tackle which  saw him sent off is anybody's guess, I suspect not. I personally don't think that the first yellow card was justified and I am in agreement with those who suggest that Schindler turned his back not out of disrespect but to move back to a covering position. I believe Mike and his colleagues need to look at this whole issue if further confusion is to be avoided in the future.

Whistleblower

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Re: M DEAN - Huddersfield v Burnley
« Reply #12 on: Thu 03 Jan 2019 13:48 »
I'm in broad agreement with Ref fan on this one. Referees are often damned however they administer a card. Call the player over and you are being too "schoolmasterish", just show it to the player and you are being to unspecific. Certainly a referee should not have to go running after a player in order to face him to administer the card. If it were me, I would move towards the player whose back was turned to me and shout " turn round please Number * because I am administering a caution to you." If the player doesn't, I wouldn't necessarily treat it as dissent ( though there's a case to be argued for that ) but then it's the player's fault if they don't realise they are already on a caution , pick up another one and so get sent from the field.

Readingfan

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Re: M DEAN - Huddersfield v Burnley
« Reply #13 on: Thu 03 Jan 2019 14:25 »
It just seems to me that it can't be that difficult for a referee to ensure a player is facing them before they show the card, either by audibly communicating with them or a few sharp blasts on the whistle.

They could even have a quiet word with them subsequently if they think there has been any doubt.

When there is confusion over cards shown in 50% of your matches over the festive period then I think it's fair to say something is not quite right and the referee needs to address his carding technique.
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reflector

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Re: M DEAN - Huddersfield v Burnley
« Reply #14 on: Thu 03 Jan 2019 16:38 »
Certainly there seems enough doubt here to suggest that something is not as clear as it should be, especially as cards were introduced in the first place to make it abundantly clear to players and spectators alike who has been cautioned or sent off.  I agree it is disrespectful if a player deliberately turns his back when being cautioned and I don't think it is unreasonable for a referee to insist that he turns round to face him if only to ensure that he is sure the player has seen the card.  I don't think that is being too officious or schoolmasterly at all - just commonsense.   
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