+-

+-User

Welcome, Guest.
Please login or register.
 
 
 

Login with your social network

Forgot your password?

+-Stats ezBlock

Members
Total Members: 966
Latest: Caro Bates
New This Month: 13
New This Week: 3
New Today: 1
Stats
Total Posts: 76144
Total Topics: 5614
Most Online Today: 154
Most Online Ever: 17046
(Mon 29 Mar 2021 19:08)
Users Online
Members: 4
Guests: 122
Total: 126

Author Topic: Liverpool v Newcastle - M Dean  (Read 1142 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

magpie1892

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 366
    • View Profile
Liverpool v Newcastle - M Dean
« on: Thu 16 Dec 2021 20:28 »
Thoughts on the Liverpool equaliser?

Should he have stopped the game with a Newcastle player down with potential head injury?

Share on Facebook Share on Twitter


magpie1892

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 366
    • View Profile
Re: Liverpool v Newcastle - M Dean
« Reply #1 on: Thu 16 Dec 2021 20:31 »
Looking again don't think it was a head injury

If a player is injured in the PA should the referee stop the game, what would be the guidance?
« Last Edit: Thu 16 Dec 2021 20:33 by magpie1892 »
Bad Spelling Bad Spelling x 1 View List

magpie1892

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 366
    • View Profile
Re: Liverpool v Newcastle - M Dean
« Reply #2 on: Thu 16 Dec 2021 21:27 »
Down the other end if that was Lascelles fouling Salah they would have given a penalty
Like Like x 1 Dumb Dumb x 2 View List

Dumbo

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 15
    • View Profile
Re: Liverpool v Newcastle - M Dean
« Reply #3 on: Thu 16 Dec 2021 22:03 »
Down the other end if that was Lascelles fouling Salah they would have given a penalty
So Newcastle should've had a penalty?

bmb

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6,088
  • Gender: Female
  • Causing mischief & mayhem!!
  • Location: Somewhere between Poole & Budapest!
    • View Profile
    • Hungarian Football
  • Referee Level: Observer/Mentor.
Re: Liverpool v Newcastle - M Dean
« Reply #4 on: Thu 16 Dec 2021 23:56 »
Looking again don't think it was a head injury

If a player is injured in the PA should the referee stop the game, what would be the guidance?

Only for a head injury or if it was believed to be serious such as an obvious broken leg/arm kind of thing.
Hajrá Lilák. Csak a Kispest. Hajrá Magyarok! Hajrá játékvezetői csapat! Soha ne add fel. Nincs sárga kérem!!! No Chris Kavanagh doesn't live in Ashton or even in the Greater Manchester area!!
Like Like x 1 View List

Irishref1985

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 436
    • View Profile
Re: Liverpool v Newcastle - M Dean
« Reply #5 on: Fri 17 Dec 2021 03:53 »
Super performance from Mike Dean… all cautions correct and his decision to allow the equaliser from Liverpool was the correct one…
Like Like x 1 View List

Leggy

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 716
  • Gender: Male
  • Location: East Grinstead
    • View Profile
  • Referee Level: Long Retired Level 3
Re: Liverpool v Newcastle - M Dean
« Reply #6 on: Fri 17 Dec 2021 06:49 »
A referee could be put into an impossible position here. 

If the referee is forced to stop play for everything that appears to be a head injury then it is a short jump to a situation whereby players will fake a head injury when their team is in peril.

Conversely, if the referee chooses to let play continue and the player does have a head injury, he/she will be pilloried.

Once again the powers that be have placed referees in a no-win situation.
Agree Agree x 6 View List

Ashington46

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 835
  • Gender: Male
  • Location: Ashington, Northumberland
    • View Profile
  • Referee Level: Retired for years!
Re: Liverpool v Newcastle - M Dean
« Reply #7 on: Fri 17 Dec 2021 09:19 »
A referee could be put into an impossible position here. 

If the referee is forced to stop play for everything that appears to be a head injury then it is a short jump to a situation whereby players will fake a head injury when their team is in peril.

Conversely, if the referee chooses to let play continue and the player does have a head injury, he/she will be pilloried.

Once again the powers that be have placed referees in a no-win situation.

Totally agree, however, your last sentence should read "Once again the powers that be, aided and abetted by many players have placed referees in a no-win situation."
Referee's decision used to be final!
Agree Agree x 3 View List

DublinRef

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 660
    • View Profile
Re: Liverpool v Newcastle - M Dean
« Reply #8 on: Fri 17 Dec 2021 09:20 »
I agree with Leggy, the referee cannot win here. One could argue that a player was down holding their head and in the interest of safety the referee should have stopped play. However when you look at the replay it looks like nothing serious at all occurred and certainly there didn't appear to be a head injury so had Mike Dean blew just before the goal was scored Liverpool would reasonably have been aggrieved.

This is totally on players for me, if they were more honest then referees would be confident in stopping play when they went down holding their heads, as Leggy suggests though there is so much crying wolf that referees can never be certain what has actually occurred.

Saying that though - one can never be critical of a referee who stops play if in doubt for a serious injury. Particularly with the recent incidents of players collapsing on the pitch.

So in summary I can see how both Newcastle and Mike Dean can feel a little uncomfortable about this incident. In this particular case though I think the goal is correctly allowed.
Like Like x 1 View List

Affy_Moose

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 313
  • Scottish Match Official
    • View Profile
Re: Liverpool v Newcastle - M Dean
« Reply #9 on: Fri 17 Dec 2021 10:23 »
The goal was more certainly correctly allowed, but unlike the Manchester United goal were De Gea went down, there was definitely an opportunity to pause the game here before Liverpool were in a goalscoring position.

Ultimately, these situations are impossible to legislate for satisfactorily. Fortunately, there wasn't a serious injury here, but it's well within the realms of possibility that it could have been (this being an example where an injury can occur, despite the situation not being in the 'obvious' category).  Strangely, the player who hit the ground harder was the defender who got back to his feet - and that landing did not look pleasant.  Equally, it would have been interesting to see the wider view if both defenders had stayed down.

I don't envy Dean's position, and ultimately there was nothing he could do once play continued.

His positioning for the 3rd Liverpool goal, however, would be highly inadvisable for an official at any level.  It's a great clip for discussion on decision making and positioning.  That nothing happened here is down to sheer luck rather than by design.  Dean could have easily been skelped with the ball, or there could have been a handball decision on the Newcastle defender.  In the latter event he would not have been able to make a decision.

His position was almost borderline blocking the Newcastle defender(s) ability to play the ball. 

Obviously VAR would have been available, but that would not be a recourse available at lower levels.  An excellent clip to help with education of less experienced officials.

Clip is at 2:29, the later angles really show how awkward this was.

« Last Edit: Fri 17 Dec 2021 10:25 by Affy_Moose »

Acme Thunderer

  • RTR Veterans
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 2,430
    • View Profile
Re: Liverpool v Newcastle - M Dean
« Reply #10 on: Fri 17 Dec 2021 10:29 »
I agree with the above comments re no-win situation. If a player collapses, play should and would be stopped immediately nowadays. If there is an obvious clash of heads, with or without blood, then again play should be stopped. In these two situations, I suggest the reaction of other players makes it obvious that there is a serious problem, in the same way as for a potential leg break. Other than these, it should be left to the ref to decide whether to stop play.   

Ref Watcher

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 626
    • View Profile
Re: Liverpool v Newcastle - M Dean
« Reply #11 on: Fri 17 Dec 2021 13:05 »
His positioning for the 3rd Liverpool goal, however, would be highly inadvisable for an official at any level.  It's a great clip for discussion on decision making and positioning.  That nothing happened here is down to sheer luck rather than by design.  Dean could have easily been skelped with the ball, or there could have been a handball decision on the Newcastle defender.  In the latter event he would not have been able to make a decision.

His position was almost borderline blocking the Newcastle defender(s) ability to play the ball.
He has also run across the line of the goalkeeper's view which wouldn't have endeared him to Martin Dúbravka.  He wouldn't have saved it anyway but it's just something else for a player to complain about.

Joecphillips

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 321
    • View Profile
Re: Liverpool v Newcastle - M Dean
« Reply #12 on: Fri 17 Dec 2021 13:42 »
Eddie Howe has claimed the player was dazed until after the match, which raises a question why do Newcastle not take player safety seriously
Like Like x 3 View List

DublinRef

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 660
    • View Profile
Re: Liverpool v Newcastle - M Dean
« Reply #13 on: Fri 17 Dec 2021 14:15 »
Eddie Howe has claimed the player was dazed until after the match, which raises a question why do Newcastle not take player safety seriously

Indeed very irresponsible for him not to substitute him if that is the case. Howe to me anyway generally comes across as a very sensible and fair minded person so perhaps he wasn't aware until after the fact but it does raise questions about whether everything was done by Newcastle to ensure the players safety.
Agree Agree x 1 View List

bmb

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6,088
  • Gender: Female
  • Causing mischief & mayhem!!
  • Location: Somewhere between Poole & Budapest!
    • View Profile
    • Hungarian Football
  • Referee Level: Observer/Mentor.
Re: Liverpool v Newcastle - M Dean
« Reply #14 on: Fri 17 Dec 2021 14:32 »
Eddie Howe has claimed the player was dazed until after the match, which raises a question why do Newcastle not take player safety seriously

Indeed very irresponsible for him not to substitute him if that is the case. Howe to me anyway generally comes across as a very sensible and fair minded person so perhaps he wasn't aware until after the fact but it does raise questions about whether everything was done by Newcastle to ensure the players safety.

Eddie is a lovely guy and has always been polite & respectful towards referees & about decisions. Very rare for him to comment & I'd have to say, don't ever turn into that sort of manager Eddie - you are better than that. He & Jas have also always been hot on injury & not putting players at risk. Eddie was forced to retire young through injury and doesn't want to see one of his players go through that. I would be very surprised if he or Jas knew at the time, it's just not them.  He should be having a long hard chat with the physio/member of the medical team and making sure they know he does not do things that way, player safety & wellbeing is paramount & advising them in the strongest terms to follow the concussion procedure in future or they are out. 
Hajrá Lilák. Csak a Kispest. Hajrá Magyarok! Hajrá játékvezetői csapat! Soha ne add fel. Nincs sárga kérem!!! No Chris Kavanagh doesn't live in Ashton or even in the Greater Manchester area!!
Like Like x 4 View List