Author Topic: Liverpool v Chelsea - Kevin Friend (Read 1141 times)

bmb · « **on:** Wed 26 Sep 2018 23:20 »

Seems Mr Friend is as unpopular on the red side of Merseyside as he is in Bournemouth! He's taking an absolute battering on twitter right now over an offside goal. It says on there he consulted VAR but not whether he just took their word for it or had a look at it himself. Did anyone watch who can clarify if he looked or just listened? If he just relied on his VAR's word then the criticism his way is a tad harsh but then I am talking twitter & not many on there would have the foresight to blame the VAR not the ref! VAR was Graham Scott. This is the still from it.

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bruntyboy · « **Reply #1 on:** Thu 27 Sep 2018 01:48 »

You can't tell from that picture whether the player who had the header (Cahill) is clearly offside. The two Chelsea players ahead of play didn't interefere with the defenders playing the ball.

I noticed that they didn't go to VAR on the Liverpool goal to confirm whether Sturrdige was offside on the original shot which the goalkeeper palmed out to him.

Also no booking for Keita for an obvious dive for a penalty and seen by Friend. Also booked Moses near the end of stoppage time for delaying a throw in (where the player simply let another Chelsea player take the throw in) despite a Liverpool having done exactly the same thing earlier on with no booking.

QuoCob · « **Reply #2 on:** Thu 27 Sep 2018 08:01 »

Quote from: bruntyboy on Thu 27 Sep 2018 01:48

I noticed that they didn't go to VAR on the Liverpool goal to confirm whether Sturrdige was offside on the original shot which the goalkeeper palmed out to him.

Agree, saw the goals this morning and from the 'hundreds' of different angles SKY showed, not one showed/queried whether he was offside?

bmb · « **Reply #3 on:** Thu 27 Sep 2018 10:48 »

As I don't know which player is which, this is a closer up of the still. 8, 28 & 29 all look offside to me - which one is Cahill? On twitter it said it was Barclay who headed not Cahill? If #8 was who headed the ball then it's not clear and obvious in my opinion. That's a very tight call & not one that the AR could have really made with 100% certainty in real time.

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TheThingFromLewes · « **Reply #4 on:** Thu 27 Sep 2018 12:09 »

Scholes on the far side would have needed 6 eyes to work out who was offside and who played it. Virtually impossible to distinguish. It even took VAR a good minute or so to look at it several times over.

I didn’t think Friend did that badly. He was consistent with the cards aside from Keita’s dive.

Certainly not a disaster by any stretch.

ASM · « **Reply #5 on:** Thu 27 Sep 2018 12:14 »

Cahill is the player centrally who is not offside. 8 is Barkley, 29 Morata and 28 is Azpilicueta

Readingfan · « **Reply #6 on:** Thu 27 Sep 2018 12:25 »

Quote from: QuoCob on Thu 27 Sep 2018 08:01

Quote from: bruntyboy on Thu 27 Sep 2018 01:48

I noticed that they didn't go to VAR on the Liverpool goal to confirm whether Sturrdige was offside on the original shot which the goalkeeper palmed out to him.

Agree, saw the goals this morning and from the 'hundreds' of different angles SKY showed, not one showed/queried whether he was offside?

It's not a case of going to VAR or not because VAR looks at every goal anyway.

For the Chelsea goal, I don't think there was a conclusive angle to say whether or not it was offside so right to stay with the original decision.

bruntyboy · « **Reply #7 on:** Thu 27 Sep 2018 19:17 »

Quote from: Readingfan on Thu 27 Sep 2018 12:25

Quote from: QuoCob on Thu 27 Sep 2018 08:01
Quote from: bruntyboy on Thu 27 Sep 2018 01:48

I noticed that they didn't go to VAR on the Liverpool goal to confirm whether Sturrdige was offside on the original shot which the goalkeeper palmed out to him.

Agree, saw the goals this morning and from the 'hundreds' of different angles SKY showed, not one showed/queried whether he was offside?

It's not a case of going to VAR or not because VAR looks at every goal anyway.

How do we know that VAR looked at offside for the original shot (as what was reviewed for onr Derby's second goal the previous night)? Admittedly Sturridge looked in line with the defender but we don't know because there wasn't a still with lines across the pitch. His toe could have been offside as has been ruled before. When Sturridge kicked the ball he was back in an onside position.

Is it now time we went back to the "daylight" reference for offsides? Plus as has been mentioned we have in this instance 2 Chelsea players definitely in "offside" positions and another VAR will decide they are interfering with the defenders.

Yes bmb you are right I should have referred to Barkley not Cahill.

Readingfan · « **Reply #8 on:** Thu 27 Sep 2018 19:52 »

Quote from: bruntyboy on Thu 27 Sep 2018 19:17

Quote from: Readingfan on Thu 27 Sep 2018 12:25
Quote from: QuoCob on Thu 27 Sep 2018 08:01
Quote from: bruntyboy on Thu 27 Sep 2018 01:48

I noticed that they didn't go to VAR on the Liverpool goal to confirm whether Sturrdige was offside on the original shot which the goalkeeper palmed out to him.

Agree, saw the goals this morning and from the 'hundreds' of different angles SKY showed, not one showed/queried whether he was offside?

It's not a case of going to VAR or not because VAR looks at every goal anyway.

How do we know that VAR looked at offside for the original shot (as what was reviewed for onr Derby's second goal the previous night)? Admittedly Sturridge looked in line with the defender but we don't know because there wasn't a still with lines across the pitch. His toe could have been offside as has been ruled before. When Sturridge kicked the ball he was back in an onside position.

Is it now time we went back to the "daylight" reference for offsides? Plus as has been mentioned we have in this instance 2 Chelsea players definitely in "offside" positions and another VAR will decide they are interfering with the defenders.

Yes bmb you are right I should have referred to Barkley not Cahill.

Well, we don't know for certain that they looked at it, but there's no reason to think that they didn't - how do we know for certain that they looked to see if Romero was correctly sent off at Old Trafford or not?

At first, I wondered if Sturridge was offside or not but based on the replays it seemed fairly clear that he was on. And I think we can reasonably assume that firstly if it had been offside or a very close decision then VAR would have corrected it and secondly Sky would have shown replays if there was any contention.

bmb · « **Reply #9 on:** Thu 27 Sep 2018 20:37 »

Quote from: bruntyboy on Thu 27 Sep 2018 19:17

Is it now time we went back to the "daylight" reference for offsides? Plus as has been mentioned we have in this instance 2 Chelsea players definitely in "offside" positions and another VAR will decide they are interfering with the defenders.

I'm pretty sure the Law on offside was always much clearer than it is now, it's about as clear as mud these days! Far too many permutations, imo, for an AR to have to consider, in the split second they have to make a decision, beyond the simple is he is an offside position, yes or no, especially given the speed the game is played at these days!

ajb95 · « **Reply #10 on:** Fri 28 Sep 2018 09:20 »

Quote from: bmb on Thu 27 Sep 2018 20:37

Quote from: bruntyboy on Thu 27 Sep 2018 19:17
Is it now time we went back to the "daylight" reference for offsides? Plus as has been mentioned we have in this instance 2 Chelsea players definitely in "offside" positions and another VAR will decide they are interfering with the defenders.

I'm pretty sure the Law on offside was always much clearer than it is now, it's about as clear as mud these days! Far too many permutations, imo, for an AR to have to consider, in the split second they have to make a decision, beyond the simple is he is an offside position, yes or no, especially given the speed the game is played at these days!

I didn’t like the old system much. People being in offside positions that were having no impact on the game were being unfairly penalised. I remember the 1999 fa cup semi final when Roy Keane’s goal was ruled out because Dwight Yorke was in an offside position but had had no impact on the game. Could have cost United the treble that year!

QuoCob · « **Reply #11 on:** Fri 28 Sep 2018 12:09 »

Quote from: ajb95 on Fri 28 Sep 2018 09:20

Quote from: bmb on Thu 27 Sep 2018 20:37
Quote from: bruntyboy on Thu 27 Sep 2018 19:17
Is it now time we went back to the "daylight" reference for offsides? Plus as has been mentioned we have in this instance 2 Chelsea players definitely in "offside" positions and another VAR will decide they are interfering with the defenders.

I'm pretty sure the Law on offside was always much clearer than it is now, it's about as clear as mud these days! Far too many permutations, imo, for an AR to have to consider, in the split second they have to make a decision, beyond the simple is he is an offside position, yes or no, especially given the speed the game is played at these days!

I didn’t like the old system much. People being in offside positions that were having no impact on the game were being unfairly penalised. I remember the 1999 fa cup semi final when Roy Keane’s goal was ruled out because Dwight Yorke was in an offside position but had had no impact on the game. Could have cost United the treble that year!

Similar to something I said on this board in it's previous guise that is current:
That defenders on the opposite side of the field of play being deemed to have played the attacker onside when they also have had no impact on the game?
Should that also be allowed/disallowed?

bmb · « **Reply #12 on:** Fri 28 Sep 2018 13:24 »

Quote from: QuoCob on Fri 28 Sep 2018 12:09

Quote from: ajb95 on Fri 28 Sep 2018 09:20
Quote from: bmb on Thu 27 Sep 2018 20:37
Quote from: bruntyboy on Thu 27 Sep 2018 19:17
Is it now time we went back to the "daylight" reference for offsides? Plus as has been mentioned we have in this instance 2 Chelsea players definitely in "offside" positions and another VAR will decide they are interfering with the defenders.

I'm pretty sure the Law on offside was always much clearer than it is now, it's about as clear as mud these days! Far too many permutations, imo, for an AR to have to consider, in the split second they have to make a decision, beyond the simple is he is an offside position, yes or no, especially given the speed the game is played at these days!

I didn’t like the old system much. People being in offside positions that were having no impact on the game were being unfairly penalised. I remember the 1999 fa cup semi final when Roy Keane’s goal was ruled out because Dwight Yorke was in an offside position but had had no impact on the game. Could have cost United the treble that year!

Similar to something I said on this board in it's previous guise that is current:
That defenders on the opposite side of the field of play being deemed to have played the attacker onside when they also have had no impact on the game?
Should that also be allowed/disallowed?

Good point - neither scenario is right when you look at them in these contexts really.

It's also not right that Barkley (#8 I am told) was the one who headed the ball for the goal is offside in the above images - look at where his left foot is but was not penalised for it & a goal stood. I understand "clear and obvious error" but the VAR can see from that still what the AR has absolutely zero chance of seeing in real time and if we are to go down that route, which is now obvious that we are, then shouldn't a wrong be righted? Either VAR has to right the wrongs, where an official in real time has zero chance of seeing something or what is the point in it? Too tight for the naked eye & I am not criticising the AR at all, just the system that has been set up to supposedly help them with decisions that simply due to the nature and speed of the game they cannot be expected to make in real time. How is that a help? A wrong decision, albeit a 100% understandable one, was not righted by the very technology provided to do so!

Readingfan · « **Reply #13 on:** Fri 28 Sep 2018 13:35 »

Quote from: bmb on Fri 28 Sep 2018 13:24

Quote from: QuoCob on Fri 28 Sep 2018 12:09
Quote from: ajb95 on Fri 28 Sep 2018 09:20
Quote from: bmb on Thu 27 Sep 2018 20:37
Quote from: bruntyboy on Thu 27 Sep 2018 19:17
Is it now time we went back to the "daylight" reference for offsides? Plus as has been mentioned we have in this instance 2 Chelsea players definitely in "offside" positions and another VAR will decide they are interfering with the defenders.

I'm pretty sure the Law on offside was always much clearer than it is now, it's about as clear as mud these days! Far too many permutations, imo, for an AR to have to consider, in the split second they have to make a decision, beyond the simple is he is an offside position, yes or no, especially given the speed the game is played at these days!

I didn’t like the old system much. People being in offside positions that were having no impact on the game were being unfairly penalised. I remember the 1999 fa cup semi final when Roy Keane’s goal was ruled out because Dwight Yorke was in an offside position but had had no impact on the game. Could have cost United the treble that year!

Similar to something I said on this board in it's previous guise that is current:
That defenders on the opposite side of the field of play being deemed to have played the attacker onside when they also have had no impact on the game?
Should that also be allowed/disallowed?

Good point - neither scenario is right when you look at them in these contexts really.

It's also not right that Barkley (#8 I am told) was the one who headed the ball for the goal is offside in the above images - look at where his left foot is but was not penalised for it & a goal stood. I understand "clear and obvious error" but the VAR can see from that still what the AR has absolutely zero chance of seeing in real time and if we are to go down that route, which is now obvious that we are, then shouldn't a wrong be righted? Either VAR has to right the wrongs, where an official in real time has zero chance of seeing something or what is the point in it? Too tight for the naked eye & I am not criticising the AR at all, just the system that has been set up to supposedly help them with decisions that simply due to the nature and speed of the game they cannot be expected to make in real time. How is that a help? A wrong decision, albeit a 100% understandable one, was not righted by the very technology provided to do so!

I haven't seen any conclusive image to indicate for certain that he was offside - you can't see completely where the Liverpool defender is positioned.

bmb · « **Reply #14 on:** Fri 28 Sep 2018 16:25 »

Quote from: Readingfan on Fri 28 Sep 2018 13:35

I haven't seen any conclusive image to indicate for certain that he was offside - you can't see completely where the Liverpool defender is positioned.

You can see in the enlarged still that his left foot (red sock, white boot) is on the blue VAR line whereas the #8 foot (white sock, red boot seen just under #29's thigh & knee) is goalside of that line & therefore goalside of the defender. Like I said above, absolutely zero chance of the AR ever being able to see that in real time but the technology can certainly pick it up. Granted from that angle you can't see his knee - you need the same still from the mirror image view for that & it may well be the case that his knee was about 1mm or so nearer the goaline. These guys need help out there & I don't think the powers that be are using the technology now available to do so effectively.

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Author Topic: Liverpool v Chelsea - Kevin Friend (Read 1141 times)

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Liverpool v Chelsea - Kevin Friend

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