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Author Topic: Keith Stroud - Derby V Forest  (Read 1666 times)

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Readingfan

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Keith Stroud - Derby V Forest
« on: Mon 17 Dec 2018 22:48 »
I was surprised Keith Stroud was appointed to this game and wasn't very impressed by his tournament. Not sure how he failed to give Derby a penalty.

Various other strange decisions including waving play on after a two footed tackle.

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TheThingFromLewes

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Re: Keith Stroud - Derby V Forest
« Reply #1 on: Mon 17 Dec 2018 23:39 »
Usual dross from Stroud. Clear penalty not given against Darikwa which was astonishing. I think the only thing he got right of the major calls was to card Huddlestone for hands, for which even the AR on the far side missed.

The tackle by Tomori was a certain card, at real time it looked red but Stroud didn't even go into his pocket.

A shame the game was to a degree ruined in the latter stages, too much stop start whistling from Stroud killing the contest off.

Ipswich for him soon ......
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Failed Ref

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Re: Keith Stroud - Derby V Forest
« Reply #2 on: Tue 18 Dec 2018 09:28 »
Wasted 90 minutes last night simply because it was a local derby and my son supports one of the teams. I am reminded of Warnock's comment that you should not have trainee refs doing big games but this emphasises the other side, that even experienced referees get it wrong. Incidentally, would Kavanagh be classified inexperienced? But I digress.
One penalty missed and a tackle which had it made contact with an opponent would have seriously injured him. How can you stamp out such dangerous tackles when this is allowed to happen? I am baffled by the performance but I have not seen much of Stroud before but he would not have been appointed for such a big game if the powers that be considered him incapable of handling it. However, some of the stop start whistling was due to the nature of the game, the occasion and conditions and referees cannot control that. (Reminded of Atkinson on Sunday, game flowed so little whistle required. There is a good official.)

nemesis

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Re: Keith Stroud - Derby V Forest
« Reply #3 on: Tue 18 Dec 2018 10:48 »
Usual dross from Stroud. Clear penalty not given against Darikwa which was astonishing. I think the only thing he got right of the major calls was to card Huddlestone for hands, for which even the AR on the far side missed.

The tackle by Tomori was a certain card, at real time it looked red but Stroud didn't even go into his pocket.

A shame the game was to a degree ruined in the latter stages, too much stop start whistling from Stroud killing the contest off.

Ipswich for him soon ......

And as I said elsewhere, he looks the pick of the festive quartet ...... deeply worrying and a clear indication that SG2 has produced no benefit to the quality of refereeing in the Championship in fact it appears to be just the opposite !    #stealingaliving
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TheThingFromLewes

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Re: Keith Stroud - Derby V Forest
« Reply #4 on: Tue 18 Dec 2018 11:31 »
Usual dross from Stroud. Clear penalty not given against Darikwa which was astonishing. I think the only thing he got right of the major calls was to card Huddlestone for hands, for which even the AR on the far side missed.

The tackle by Tomori was a certain card, at real time it looked red but Stroud didn't even go into his pocket.

A shame the game was to a degree ruined in the latter stages, too much stop start whistling from Stroud killing the contest off.

Ipswich for him soon ......

And as I said elsewhere, he looks the pick of the festive quartet ...... deeply worrying and a clear indication that SG2 has produced no benefit to the quality of refereeing in the Championship in fact it appears to be just the opposite !    #stealingaliving

The only officials in SG2 at present who seem to be on the way up are England,Jones and Madley. The rest, unless I’ve missed anyone out, simply put are journeyman officials.

Whistleblower

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Re: Keith Stroud - Derby V Forest
« Reply #5 on: Tue 18 Dec 2018 13:38 »
I think that's reasonably fair TheThingFromLewes although I have been extremely impressed by Darren Bond on the two times I have seen him and I believe that those in the know were tipping Peter Bankes at one stage though his star doesn't seem to be climbing the heavens quite as quickly as it once did.

The salient question about journeymen is 'Are they good, competent journeymen '?  Professionally in my team journeymen and journeywomen are essential to the success of the enterprise. It's good to have one or two high flyers but often they spend more time looking forward to what might be than concentrating on the here and now and getting that right. I don't watch enough Championship football to make an entirely accurate judgement but I get the impression there are quite a few moderate performers in SG2
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nemesis

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Re: Keith Stroud - Derby V Forest
« Reply #6 on: Tue 18 Dec 2018 14:21 »
I think that's reasonably fair TheThingFromLewes although I have been extremely impressed by Darren Bond on the two times I have seen him and I believe that those in the know were tipping Peter Bankes at one stage though his star doesn't seem to be climbing the heavens quite as quickly as it once did.

The salient question about journeymen is 'Are they good, competent journeymen '?  Professionally in my team journeymen and journeywomen are essential to the success of the enterprise. It's good to have one or two high flyers but often they spend more time looking forward to what might be than concentrating on the here and now and getting that right. I don't watch enough Championship football to make an entirely accurate judgement but I get the impression there are quite a few moderate performers in SG2

I do  ..... and you're not wrong. In fact there are a number who fall short of even "moderate".

It beggars belief that this body of men, who are able to spend every minute of their working week concentrating on becoming better referees, produce such shoddy performances week in, week out.

Scott Duncan was the latest in a long line of appalling officials at Portman Road for Ipswich's first home win of the season. That he should do this job for a living is frankly incomprehendable.


Whistleblower

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Re: Keith Stroud - Derby V Forest
« Reply #7 on: Tue 18 Dec 2018 15:37 »
In reply to m'learned friend I wonder if there are much better journeymen now plying their trade in L2 and L2 who should be in SG2 in place of many of those who are actually there? From what I have seen I can think only of Dean Whitestone and Ben Toner who shone out. If there aren't such good replacements then it leads to all sorts of possible conclusions. 1) The Observing/Assessing/Mentoring system is fundamentally flawed 2) Refereeing professional football is now much harder that only a very few manage it successfully 3) Referees were just as bad years ago but were not under the scrutiny of the camera spotlight and so their mistakes and poor performances went more unnoticed.

I think Rob Jones and Darren England are going to be leading officials of their generation but in each era there are usually only a few 'stars'. What seems to be the case is that the journeymen are not journeying as well as once they did. Or perhaps they are. In olden days I seem to remember that for every Joe Worrall there were quite a few Alan Turveys.   Just some thoughts.

Whistleblower

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Re: Keith Stroud - Derby V Forest
« Reply #8 on: Tue 18 Dec 2018 15:38 »
L1 and L2 of course

nemesis

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Re: Keith Stroud - Derby V Forest
« Reply #9 on: Tue 18 Dec 2018 17:32 »
In reply to m'learned friend I wonder if there are much better journeymen now plying their trade in L2 and L2 who should be in SG2 in place of many of those who are actually there? From what I have seen I can think only of Dean Whitestone and Ben Toner who shone out. If there aren't such good replacements then it leads to all sorts of possible conclusions. 1) The Observing/Assessing/Mentoring system is fundamentally flawed 2) Refereeing professional football is now much harder that only a very few manage it successfully 3) Referees were just as bad years ago but were not under the scrutiny of the camera spotlight and so their mistakes and poor performances went more unnoticed.

I think Rob Jones and Darren England are going to be leading officials of their generation but in each era there are usually only a few 'stars'. What seems to be the case is that the journeymen are not journeying as well as once they did. Or perhaps they are. In olden days I seem to remember that for every Joe Worrall there were quite a few Alan Turveys.   Just some thoughts.

No, there was only one Alan Turvey !!!

I would give most weight to point 2 but suspect point 1 is also a contributory factor. Less so point 3, as if I only watched live football and nothing at all on TV I would still have the same opinion.

I wonder what these full-time employees do all week. I bet there's plenty of golf handicaps plummeting. They are definitely not improving their game either individually or collectively.


TheThingFromLewes

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Re: Keith Stroud - Derby V Forest
« Reply #10 on: Tue 18 Dec 2018 17:47 »
In reply to m'learned friend I wonder if there are much better journeymen now plying their trade in L2 and L2 who should be in SG2 in place of many of those who are actually there? From what I have seen I can think only of Dean Whitestone and Ben Toner who shone out. If there aren't such good replacements then it leads to all sorts of possible conclusions. 1) The Observing/Assessing/Mentoring system is fundamentally flawed 2) Refereeing professional football is now much harder that only a very few manage it successfully 3) Referees were just as bad years ago but were not under the scrutiny of the camera spotlight and so their mistakes and poor performances went more unnoticed.

I think Rob Jones and Darren England are going to be leading officials of their generation but in each era there are usually only a few 'stars'. What seems to be the case is that the journeymen are not journeying as well as once they did. Or perhaps they are. In olden days I seem to remember that for every Joe Worrall there were quite a few Alan Turveys.   Just some thoughts.

No, there was only one Alan Turvey !!!

I would give most weight to point 2 but suspect point 1 is also a contributory factor. Less so point 3, as if I only watched live football and nothing at all on TV I would still have the same opinion.

I wonder what these full-time employees do all week. I bet there's plenty of golf handicaps plummeting. They are definitely not improving their game either individually or collectively.

I guess watching the likes of Kettle for 14 or so years impacting games on a regular basis adds even more weight to the latter half of point 2!!

 How he maintained his position over the years is one of life's puzzling enigmas, even allowing for any nepotism! That said, his disasters and maverick performances have subsided substantially in the last year or so.
« Last Edit: Tue 18 Dec 2018 17:50 by TheThingFromLewes »

Whistleblower

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Re: Keith Stroud - Derby V Forest
« Reply #11 on: Tue 18 Dec 2018 17:54 »
Indeed m'learned friend you are right and I was just about thinking it as I typed, Topsy was unique in the standard he achieved.

QuoCob

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Re: Keith Stroud - Derby V Forest
« Reply #12 on: Tue 18 Dec 2018 18:22 »
Is it because the better officials had a life outside of football that paid off their mortgages quicker and/or they only wanted to officiate as a part time/hobby and not as a profession.
It's a big decision to go from a previously relatively secure living to the full time insecurity of refereeing.
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SuffolkRef

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Re: Keith Stroud - Derby V Forest
« Reply #13 on: Tue 18 Dec 2018 19:38 »
I think that's reasonably fair TheThingFromLewes although I have been extremely impressed by Darren Bond on the two times I have seen him and I believe that those in the know were tipping Peter Bankes at one stage though his star doesn't seem to be climbing the heavens quite as quickly as it once did.

The salient question about journeymen is 'Are they good, competent journeymen '?  Professionally in my team journeymen and journeywomen are essential to the success of the enterprise. It's good to have one or two high flyers but often they spend more time looking forward to what might be than concentrating on the here and now and getting that right. I don't watch enough Championship football to make an entirely accurate judgement but I get the impression there are quite a few moderate performers in SG2

Some very good points as ever WB.

Nobody will argue that Jones and Madley are the stand out officials in the Championship.  While not there at present, England has the potential.

I can’t disagree that Bankes and Bond are part of the next group down.  James Linington is deserving of a SG2 position without troubling the promotion candidates.  Beyond that it is much of a muchness.

JCFC

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Re: Keith Stroud - Derby V Forest
« Reply #14 on: Tue 18 Dec 2018 20:11 »
Topsy was unique in the standard he achieved.

Mr Turvey was second only to Harry Dempsey in my list of "Referees I wish I had seen."

Here endeth what little credibility I possessed.