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Author Topic: J BROOKS: LIVERPOOL V VILLA  (Read 1466 times)

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TVOS

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Re: J BROOKS: LIVERPOOL V VILLA
« Reply #15 on: Sat 20 May 2023 23:07 »
Excellent decision on the penalty, which he only spotted because he made a dynamic sprint into a wide position to get a good view.

From then on he spent the rest of the game making every attempt to annoy absolutely everyone in the ground. First 10 minutes everything was a free kick then all of a sudden nothing was. Looked like a missed RC for Mings for a dangerous and also last man tackle. Seen penalties given for the one waved away on henderson.

The stream I am on, showed the VAR officials during the check, Wade Smith was scrolling through pages of a book, surely not the laws?

Brooks is lucky Klopp isn't on the touchline

Klopp is lucky he's not off the touchline for much longer than he is.
« Last Edit: Sun 21 May 2023 08:31 by TVOS »

Scally Bob

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Re: J BROOKS: LIVERPOOL V VILLA
« Reply #16 on: Sat 20 May 2023 23:52 »
Having watched brief highlights Brooks made a brilliant decision to give Villa a penalty in the first half, great positioning.
I was surprised Mings didnt see red for his challenge on Gakpo, can only think lack of force in the challenge was the team ref reasoning.
Having watched Brooks referee recently, he like many referees nowadays tend to let quite a bit go and allow the game to flow.
Brooks has been getting good appointments of recent and well deserved.
As for the time wasting and game management aspects which have crept in to the Villa game plan since Emery took over, i am not in favour of.
Martinez must be the most cautioned player for time wasting this season in the premier league. Perhaps Brooks should have started cautioning earlier for delaying restarts as Anthony Taylor did towards the end of the first half in the Nottm F v Arsenal game.
I guess red tinted glasses maybe a reason for blaming team ref for Liverpool not winning today.
Liverpool lacked rhythm today but a large part of that was the refereeís failure to apply Law regarding delaying restarts and his failure to distinguish between injury and gamesmanship. Had Liverpool been playing against ten men for most of the game as they ought to have been the outcome may have been different. Liverpool didnít play that well but the referee today was weak. He missed an obvious red for SFP (as did the VAR) and allowed persistent timewasting to go unpunished until his sanctions were meaningless.

bruntyboy

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Re: J BROOKS: LIVERPOOL V VILLA
« Reply #17 on: Sun 21 May 2023 01:38 »
One could ask why Konate didn't get a RC on the Villa penalty as he got nowhere near to playing the ball.

Also if a player is suspended he can play no part in the game so why is Klopp allowed to sit in the stand giving instructions?

cwh

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Re: J BROOKS: LIVERPOOL V VILLA
« Reply #18 on: Sun 21 May 2023 04:39 »
Because he appears to do anything he likes with complete disregard to anyone else (although I do not know the regulations regarding this)  - he is, in my opinion, the most unpleasant, arrogant person,I have seen recently involved in Premiership football at the moment  (although of course I do not know him personally) - this is how he 'comes over' to many people - not a very good 'role model' to present

jacksamuel21

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Re: J BROOKS: LIVERPOOL V VILLA
« Reply #19 on: Sun 21 May 2023 09:48 »
Konsa clearly moves his leg to play the ball. Whatís deliberate if that isnít? How is that considered accidental but the defenders actions in goal scored by Salah vs Wolves in the FA Cup in January considered deliberate?

It definitely isnít a clear and obvious error.

Yet again VAR looking for reasons to Dissalow a goal, yet in the first half they where finding any reason not to intervene

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Scally Bob

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Re: J BROOKS: LIVERPOOL V VILLA
« Reply #20 on: Sun 21 May 2023 10:27 »
Villa achieved what they wanted by continually breaking up play with delayed restarts and feigned injuries. Throwing a few yellows around in the dying minutes is hardly managing it.

The Law regarding offside wasnít applied in the same way in Fulham v Palace where a player offside when the ball was played by a teammate scored after it had hit the shin of a Fulham player who was in a crowd of players and didnít play the ball intentionally.

Leggy

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Re: J BROOKS: LIVERPOOL V VILLA
« Reply #21 on: Sun 21 May 2023 11:09 »
Liverpool vs Villa has seen some dreadful referee performances in the last few seasons.

Moss @Villa Park Last Season
Attwell @Anfield Last Year
Atkinson and Tierney both had poor performances in 2020 too

Its one of those games like Spurs vs Chelsea and Liverpool vs Spurs.



I just don't see how Konsa didn't deliberately play it, he clearly moves his leg






That is an absolutely brilliant on field call to give Villa a penalty. My whole house watching and the whole of Anfield thought Konate won the ball but he hadn't. Great work!
In my seat at Anfield I and everybody around me knew it was a penalty and our only complaint was Konateís poor positioning which caused him to make a rash challenge.

When did referees start going to the monitor to check offsides? I must have missed that update.

When it isn't black and white and there has to be a subjective decision made as to whether the player had interfered with play or an opponent.  Has happened a few times.
As I was at the game Iíll see what the television shows me. Iíd be interested to see what excuse was concocted for the SFP by Mings.

I hope Mr. Webb is going to instruct his charges to deal with timewasting properly as well. Not quite as bad as Newcastle but atrocious nonetheless. The Villa goalkeeper was wasting time from the start, why wait 76 minutes to apply Law? The blizzard of late yellows for Villa was pointless-do it earlier.

They Yellow Card for Martinez was pointless. He was never going to get a second yellow no longer how much time he took.

Heíd still have been criticised for not booking him though.
The late, token caution for time wasting is 100% ineffective - mostly because everyone (including the time-waster) knows that no referee is going to make the headlines by issuing a second yellow card for the same time-wasting, however justified.

There needs to be a different sanction - one that impacts the team wasting time at the time that it happens.

On a similar theme, no referee is going to penalise a goal-keeper for exceeding the permitted six seconds while holding the ball.  Part of the reason for this (which I get) is that organising an indirect free-kick in the defending penalty area is a nightmare and to be avoided at all costs.  But when we see goal-keepers "using" upwards of 25 seconds before releasing the ball into play something really does need to be done as 25 seconds is 0.5% of a full 90 minutes ..... do that four times in a game and you have chopped off 2% out of the game.  Perhaps if fans were given a 2% refund on their admission fees and (more significantly) TV companies given a 2% refund on their fees it might motivate the teams, leagues and governing bodies to do something about it.

(EDIT- I presume this was meant to be your comment, please make sure you use the quote box correctly)

« Last Edit: Sun 21 May 2023 11:25 by Hertsref123 »

Claretman

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Re: J BROOKS: LIVERPOOL V VILLA
« Reply #22 on: Sun 21 May 2023 13:16 »
Liverpool vs Villa has seen some dreadful referee performances in the last few seasons.

Moss @Villa Park Last Season
Attwell @Anfield Last Year
Atkinson and Tierney both had poor performances in 2020 too

Its one of those games like Spurs vs Chelsea and Liverpool vs Spurs.



I just don't see how Konsa didn't deliberately play it, he clearly moves his leg






That is an absolutely brilliant on field call to give Villa a penalty. My whole house watching and the whole of Anfield thought Konate won the ball but he hadn't. Great work!
In my seat at Anfield I and everybody around me knew it was a penalty and our only complaint was Konateís poor positioning which caused him to make a rash challenge.

When did referees start going to the monitor to check offsides? I must have missed that update.

When it isn't black and white and there has to be a subjective decision made as to whether the player had interfered with play or an opponent.  Has happened a few times.
As I was at the game Iíll see what the television shows me. Iíd be interested to see what excuse was concocted for the SFP by Mings.

I hope Mr. Webb is going to instruct his charges to deal with timewasting properly as well. Not quite as bad as Newcastle but atrocious nonetheless. The Villa goalkeeper was wasting time from the start, why wait 76 minutes to apply Law? The blizzard of late yellows for Villa was pointless-do it earlier.

They Yellow Card for Martinez was pointless. He was never going to get a second yellow no longer how much time he took.

Heíd still have been criticised for not booking him though.
The late, token caution for time wasting is 100% ineffective - mostly because everyone (including the time-waster) knows that no referee is going to make the headlines by issuing a second yellow card for the same time-wasting, however justified.

There needs to be a different sanction - one that impacts the team wasting time at the time that it happens.

On a similar theme, no referee is going to penalise a goal-keeper for exceeding the permitted six seconds while holding the ball.  Part of the reason for this (which I get) is that organising an indirect free-kick in the defending penalty area is a nightmare and to be avoided at all costs.  But when we see goal-keepers "using" upwards of 25 seconds before releasing the ball into play something really does need to be done as 25 seconds is 0.5% of a full 90 minutes ..... do that four times in a game and you have chopped off 2% out of the game.  Perhaps if fans were given a 2% refund on their admission fees and (more significantly) TV companies given a 2% refund on their fees it might motivate the teams, leagues and governing bodies to do something about it.

(EDIT- I presume this was meant to be your comment, please make sure you use the quote box correctly)
Sin bins ie 10 mins off the field of play could be an idea to stop time wasting, but then the poor referee would be accused of favouring one side i guess.

Scally Bob

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Re: J BROOKS: LIVERPOOL V VILLA
« Reply #23 on: Mon 22 May 2023 13:52 »
I just watched the disallowed goal again.

If the Villa defender had used his arm in the same way as he used his leg in that situation it would be a penalty kick. I know itís not what applies to offside but he has made his silhouette bigger to make contact with the ball. I donít understand how that can be considered not deliberate.

My understanding is that an unintended touch off a defender doesnít reset the phase of play but in my opinion the defender in this situation has deliberately played the ball to stop it going across the goal as would any defender in that position.
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Readingfan

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Re: J BROOKS: LIVERPOOL V VILLA
« Reply #24 on: Mon 22 May 2023 16:04 »
I just watched the disallowed goal again.

If the Villa defender had used his arm in the same way as he used his leg in that situation it would be a penalty kick. I know itís not what applies to offside but he has made his silhouette bigger to make contact with the ball. I donít understand how that can be considered not deliberate.

My understanding is that an unintended touch off a defender doesnít reset the phase of play but in my opinion the defender in this situation has deliberately played the ball to stop it going across the goal as would any defender in that position.


IFAB updated the guidance last summer but kept the phrasing as deliberate play so as not to actually amend the wording of LOTG, which I'm not sure was terribly helpful. A player might have deliberately tried to touch the ball but that doesn't necessarily make it a deliberate play by them. A deliberate play requires the defender to have control of the ball with the possibility of passing to a teammate, gaining possession or making a clearance.
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Claretman

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Re: J BROOKS: LIVERPOOL V VILLA
« Reply #25 on: Mon 22 May 2023 18:18 »
I just watched the disallowed goal again.

If the Villa defender had used his arm in the same way as he used his leg in that situation it would be a penalty kick. I know itís not what applies to offside but he has made his silhouette bigger to make contact with the ball. I donít understand how that can be considered not deliberate.

My understanding is that an unintended touch off a defender doesnít reset the phase of play but in my opinion the defender in this situation has deliberately played the ball to stop it going across the goal as would any defender in that position.


IFAB updated the guidance last summer but kept the phrasing as deliberate play so as not to actually amend the wording of LOTG, which I'm not sure was terribly helpful. A player might have deliberately tried to touch the ball but that doesn't necessarily make it a deliberate play by them. A deliberate play requires the defender to have control of the ball with the possibility of passing to a teammate, gaining possession or making a clearance.
I see dermot on ref watch advised the disallowing of the goal was correct in law.

Gorgeous George

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Re: J BROOKS: LIVERPOOL V VILLA
« Reply #26 on: Mon 22 May 2023 19:55 »
Readingfan is completely 100% correct in terms of application of the law and I believe the VAR and Brooks were also completely correct to disallow the goal.

I feel that the terminology used in law actually makes it sound incorrect as they use ďdeliberate playĒ when the reality is itís more like a deliberate pass or full ball under control needed to be classed as a deliberate play in law. Any block, save or stretching attempt to touch the ball is basically a deflection and not classed as a deliberate play in law whether the defender moves towards the ball deliberately or not.

Sadly most football fans have no idea about law application and there in lies the problem with modern refereeing.

Also, as Dermot explained today, the Palace Fulham goal was different as the only touches after the initial free kick come from a defender and not an attacker, and as Ward was onside when the ball was whipped in initially it is clearly a correct goal.
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mauricelapin

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Re: J BROOKS: LIVERPOOL V VILLA
« Reply #27 on: Tue 23 May 2023 09:55 »


Why not?  If time-wasting starts early in the second half of a match, and continues after a further warning, a second yellow card is entirely justifiable. Two YC offences merit a RC, whatever the precise nature of such offences. The Villa goalkeeper would have received a RC during several matches this season - but perhaps only one or two, if he had realised that this sanction would be routinely imposed.
« Last Edit: Tue 23 May 2023 16:03 by Hertsref123 »
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bruntyboy

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Re: J BROOKS: LIVERPOOL V VILLA
« Reply #28 on: Tue 23 May 2023 19:00 »


Why not?  If time-wasting starts early in the second half of a match, and continues after a further warning, a second yellow card is entirely justifiable. Two YC offences merit a RC, whatever the precise nature of such offences. The Villa goalkeeper would have received a RC during several matches this season - but perhaps only one or two, if he had realised that this sanction would be routinely imposed.

Very often time wasting starts early in the first half of a match and nothing is done about it.
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