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Author Topic: How can EPL Refereeing Improve  (Read 619 times)

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DublinRef

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How can EPL Refereeing Improve
« on: Thu 27 May 2021 21:20 »
We've talked over previous weeks about possible promotions to SG1 and many of us have offered a ranking of SG1 referees over the past season but I thought it might be interesting to think about how premier league refereeing could be improved.

VAR Audio

I would strongly be in favour of VAR audio being released during the live broadcast or at least clips of all OFRs being released after the games if they need to edit out any foul language. I think the insight this would offer to fans would not only be beneficial in an educational sense but would help VAR to be seen as a transparent system. I don't think refereeing should be totally tailored to appease fans and of course there will be a vocal minority that will never be happy but I would hope that for a small sub section at least it would improve understanding of the process and maybe even evoke some more empathy for referees!

Offside

I like the way MLS use offside with resect to VAR, judging everything by eye off the screen. The issue is that after the match the broadcasters will throw up the lines (quickly forgetting no doubt the hours they spent bemoaning them) remind us all that offside is black and white and that the millimetre offside missed by the referee was a travesty thus taking up 10 minutes of the many hours of coverage they need to fill.

Nevertheless, it might be worth giving it a try, given the level of disdain for the line system maybe a new approach like this would be welcomed - but in all honesty I doubt it. Offside is offside and as technology develops maybe we will come to accept the extremely tight ones as part of the game (personally speaking I don't have a problem with it).

Penalties

For me there is a big issue as to what constitutes enough contact to award a penalty. Many what I would call 'minimal contact penalties' have been awarded this season. They are probably not clearly and obviously wrong so VAR cannot overturn but this leads to a lot of inconsistency as when not awarded, VAR will not call for an OFR. This grey area will always exist however I think issuing clear guidelines as to when a penalty is to be awarded, backed up with video clips similar to the UEFA RAPs, could reduce this problem.

In my opinion the principle should be that penalties are awarded where there is a material impact on the game. The following could be taken into account:

- Contact must be totally initiated by the defending player. If attackers trail their leg or deliberately stops their motion in a way that is not consistent with an attempt to play the ball, take a shot or gain better position a penalty will not be awarded and a YC for simulation should be considered.

- A penalty should be awarded when:
       a) The contact, initiated by the defender, is not consistent with an attempt to play the ball or tackle fairly regardless of the effect on the attacking player.
       b) The contact initiated by the defender, even if a fair attempt to play the ball or tackle fairly, impedes the ability of the attacker to play the ball.

- Whether an attacking player stumbles or falls is immaterial in the decision to award a penalty kick

- If a defender, while acting in a manner consistent with making a genuine attempt to play the ball, makes minimal contact with an attacking player that the referee deems does not significantly impede the ability of the attacking player to play the ball a penalty will not be awarded, regardless of the reaction of the attacking player. Any attempt by the attacking player to exaggerate this type of contact with the view to deceiving the referee into awarding a penalty should result in a YC for the attacking player.

I am in no way claiming that the above will totally solve the issue, but I think clear guidelines backed up with numerous video examples would help to clear things up somewhat.

Dissent

I think the EPL needs to come closer in line with UEFA guidelines with regard to dissent. I think the following would help -

- Any player manager or substitute that shouts at the referee while he is at the review screen should be issued with a YC

- Any player that runs to confront a referee with respect to an incident that does not involve them should receive a YC

- If 3 or more players 'mob' a referee at least 1 receive a YC and if more join, further cautions should be issued

- Players who persist in following a referee after being told to move away should receive a YC

- Any players who approach the referee at half time and persist in challenging the referees decisions should receive a YC

- Any player that makes physical contact with the referee in an aggressive manner, however minimal, should receive a RC

- Any player who shouts aggressively close to a referees face should receive a RC

All of the above should be with the understanding that at all times referees should be willing to engage with players and maintain an open dialogue. They should always be ready to explain their decisions when asked (respectfully!) and try to keep players in the loop with regard to the behaviour they expect. Furthermore, they should understand that players are in a high pressure tense environment and will occasionally speak or act out of turn. This should be dealt with without using any cards and issuing a warning that future outbursts won't be treated so leniently. Referees should also have a sense of humour, be ready to admit and apologise when they make an error treat players as they expect to be treated.

To be clear I don't think referees should be issuing cheap yellow cards and I don't think they should be dictators on the pitch. However that should be firmly in charge and while working with the players, treated with respect.

Progression

I don't know if this is possible with the contracts but there should be more 'churn' between SG1 and SG2. All SG2 referees should be trained to use VAR and the top performing SG2 referees should regularly be appointed in the EPL to lower profile games - whether they are all on TV or not should not make a difference. The goal should be to reduce mistakes, not reduce how many mistakes are noticed! This season for example I think Jarred Gillett, John Brooks and maybe Tim Robinson or Tony Harrington could IMO have comfortably taken charge of 3-5 EPL games each.

The appointments should be spread much better. No referee should have more than 20 EPL games and new referees in particular should be sure to get a run of games at some stage to get comfortably bedded in to the EPL. While this is case by case and there is certainly a danger in over appointing a struggling referee, there is equally a danger in under appointing (e.g. Jones, Hooper).

Anyway, these are just a few thoughts I had, I would be interested to see what everyone thinks and what ideas we could come up with as to how to improve SG1 refereeing standards.

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bmb

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Re: How can EPL Refereeing Improve
« Reply #1 on: Thu 27 May 2021 21:30 »
2 words - new leadership
Hajrá Lilák. Csak a Kispest. Hajrá Magyarok! Hajrá játékvezetői csapat! Soha ne add fel. Nincs sárga kérem!!! No Chris Kavanagh doesn't live in Ashton or even in the Greater Manchester area!!
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RCG

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Re: How can EPL Refereeing Improve
« Reply #2 on: Thu 27 May 2021 21:34 »
BMB - could you see Andre or perhaps Martin taking it on, if asked?

ajb95

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Re: How can EPL Refereeing Improve
« Reply #3 on: Thu 27 May 2021 21:38 »
2 things as well as new leadership.

Scrap VAR.
Bring back tackling - (playing the ball is a good tackle)
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DublinRef

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Re: How can EPL Refereeing Improve
« Reply #4 on: Thu 27 May 2021 21:43 »
2 words - new leadership

You've always been more succinct than me!  :) :)
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bmb

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Re: How can EPL Refereeing Improve
« Reply #5 on: Thu 27 May 2021 21:56 »
BMB - could you see Andre or perhaps Martin taking it on, if asked?

I really don't know is the honest answer. It's a bit of a poisoned chalice really is't it? Atko is/was a police officer so he's comfortable with dealing with those above in hierarchy and well used to having to appease the bosses so in this position appeasing the shareholders. I don't know him so don't know if he is cut out for or would want a managerial role. Andre is very chilled, he's not the sort to seek controversy, no hidden nasty side to him. I'm not convinced he would want to have to be appeasing the shareholders. I think he would make an excellent coach and if he could do the job purely in teaching/training the referees and seeking to improve the standards or uniformity/consistency without having to deal with the conflicting role of keeping the shareholders happy I could see him doing a fantastic job. I just can't see him pandering to the shareholders because I think he would see them as irrelevant and his referees as his only importance. He would give his all in that respect and I believe he is well respected enough for the referees to want to work with him. If there was a change made to the system and the head of referees was left to just get on and train/work with the referees and there was a administrative role added as the person the shareholders bleat to then the former is a role I believe he would and could excel in.
Hajrá Lilák. Csak a Kispest. Hajrá Magyarok! Hajrá játékvezetői csapat! Soha ne add fel. Nincs sárga kérem!!! No Chris Kavanagh doesn't live in Ashton or even in the Greater Manchester area!!
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Guidedog

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Re: How can EPL Refereeing Improve
« Reply #6 on: Fri 28 May 2021 10:25 »
How about changing the system so that even if the on field officials have seen an offence it can still be upgraded to a red card afterwards ?  This might cause conflict with the PFA who seem to want to protect the guilty rather than the victim, but if they want the right to appeal incorrect red cards they should accept the reciprocal.
Also I understand that it is possible to listen in to discussions in other sports while in the stadium, surely an app could be developed to allow the crowd to hear what is occurring.

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Ref Watcher

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Re: How can EPL Refereeing Improve
« Reply #7 on: Fri 28 May 2021 11:09 »
Referees should also have a sense of humour
That could be a tough one to enforce!  Stand-up lessons for referees as part of a pre-season bonding session perhaps?   :)

I like to think that I referee with a sense of humour (many have said my performance is often laughable).  If I can't enjoy myself I am not really interested in doing the job.  The trouble is players frequently suffer from sense of humour failure during games.  Maybe it's just my sense of humour.

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bmb

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Re: How can EPL Refereeing Improve
« Reply #8 on: Fri 28 May 2021 11:10 »

Dissent

I think the EPL needs to come closer in line with UEFA guidelines with regard to dissent. I think the following would help -

- Any player manager or substitute that shouts at the referee while he is at the review screen should be issued with a YC

- Any player that runs to confront a referee with respect to an incident that does not involve them should receive a YC

- If 3 or more players 'mob' a referee at least 1 receive a YC and if more join, further cautions should be issued

- Players who persist in following a referee after being told to move away should receive a YC

- Any players who approach the referee at half time and persist in challenging the referees decisions should receive a YC

- Any player that makes physical contact with the referee in an aggressive manner, however minimal, should receive a RC

- Any player who shouts aggressively close to a referees face should receive a RC


Certainly happens in leagues in mainland Europe. They don't have sky TV and the shareholders to appease though... They also have an FA that tend to back their referees betters and have zero tolerance towards aggression towards match officials

I've mentioned this one before, player touched heads with a referee when being given a yellow, was give a straight red for it & the MLSZ disciplinary committee gave the player a 4 month ban. Immediately after the game the player was banished to train with the U17 by the club pending the outcome of the disciplinary hearing. Following the hearing he was sacked by the club. He played about 5 games in a different league the following season and then disappeared into obscurity. You can see the video of it: https://ratetheref.createaforum.com/general-discussion-5/well-done-the-mlsz/msg59/#msg59

The fact that nothing similar has happened since shows the players got the message loud and clear from the MLSZ that any such behaviour would not be tolerated and hefty sanctions would be used.

Can you imagine that happening in the EPL? The shareholders and primadonnas would go into meltdown! The FA here would never show such strong support of a referee and therein lies one of the problems.
Hajrá Lilák. Csak a Kispest. Hajrá Magyarok! Hajrá játékvezetői csapat! Soha ne add fel. Nincs sárga kérem!!! No Chris Kavanagh doesn't live in Ashton or even in the Greater Manchester area!!
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bmb

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Re: How can EPL Refereeing Improve
« Reply #9 on: Fri 28 May 2021 11:19 »
Referees should also have a sense of humour
That could be a tough one to enforce!  Stand-up lessons for referees as part of a pre-season bonding session perhaps?   :)

I like to think that I referee with a sense of humour (many have said my performance is often laughable).  If I can't enjoy myself I am not really interested in doing the job.  The trouble is players frequently suffer from sense of humour failure during games.  Maybe it's just my sense of humour.



You only have to look at their reaction to allegedly getting a bit of industrial language back their way to see how they would react to a bit of humour! It's ok for them to eff & blind at a ref for 90 mins, that's just industrial language and refs should accept this but if a ref allegedly uses such language they run to social media crying about it and there is media uproar!
Hajrá Lilák. Csak a Kispest. Hajrá Magyarok! Hajrá játékvezetői csapat! Soha ne add fel. Nincs sárga kérem!!! No Chris Kavanagh doesn't live in Ashton or even in the Greater Manchester area!!
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ajb95

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Re: How can EPL Refereeing Improve
« Reply #10 on: Fri 28 May 2021 13:04 »

Dissent

I think the EPL needs to come closer in line with UEFA guidelines with regard to dissent. I think the following would help -

- Any player manager or substitute that shouts at the referee while he is at the review screen should be issued with a YC

- Any player that runs to confront a referee with respect to an incident that does not involve them should receive a YC

- If 3 or more players 'mob' a referee at least 1 receive a YC and if more join, further cautions should be issued

- Players who persist in following a referee after being told to move away should receive a YC

- Any players who approach the referee at half time and persist in challenging the referees decisions should receive a YC

- Any player that makes physical contact with the referee in an aggressive manner, however minimal, should receive a RC

- Any player who shouts aggressively close to a referees face should receive a RC


Certainly happens in leagues in mainland Europe. They don't have sky TV and the shareholders to appease though... They also have an FA that tend to back their referees betters and have zero tolerance towards aggression towards match officials

I've mentioned this one before, player touched heads with a referee when being given a yellow, was give a straight red for it & the MLSZ disciplinary committee gave the player a 4 month ban. Immediately after the game the player was banished to train with the U17 by the club pending the outcome of the disciplinary hearing. Following the hearing he was sacked by the club. He played about 5 games in a different league the following season and then disappeared into obscurity. You can see the video of it: https://ratetheref.createaforum.com/general-discussion-5/well-done-the-mlsz/msg59/#msg59

The fact that nothing similar has happened since shows the players got the message loud and clear from the MLSZ that any such behaviour would not be tolerated and hefty sanctions would be used.

Can you imagine that happening in the EPL? The shareholders and primadonnas would go into meltdown! The FA here would never show such strong support of a referee and therein lies one of the problems.

BMB I have an answer to your question: money talks...
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flipmode

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Re: How can EPL Refereeing Improve
« Reply #11 on: Mon 31 May 2021 06:19 »
2 words - new leadership

Could not agree more. I've always wondered if Riley was given the role as more of a yes man? I'd also really like to know some of the SG Refs thoughts on VAR, and whether they have been able to see its benefits (if any).
David Silva olé.