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Author Topic: Football referees win HMRC case over employment status  (Read 1022 times)

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bmb

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Football referees win HMRC case over employment status
« on: Thu 06 Sep 2018 18:32 »
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Hajrá Lilák. Csak a Kispest. Hajrá Magyarok! Hajrá játékvezetői csapat! Soha ne add fel. Nincs sárga kérem!!! No Chris Kavanagh doesn't live in Ashton or even in the Greater Manchester area!!

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keith h

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Re: Football referees win HMRC case over employment status
« Reply #1 on: Thu 06 Sep 2018 19:02 »
seems you can only read it if you subscribe
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bmb

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Re: Football referees win HMRC case over employment status
« Reply #2 on: Thu 06 Sep 2018 20:24 »
Quote from: keith h on Thu 06 Sep 2018 19:02
seems you can only read it if you subscribe

I don't subscribe & I read it just fine. Can't copy & paste it - will try and screenshot it instead
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Hajrá Lilák. Csak a Kispest. Hajrá Magyarok! Hajrá játékvezetői csapat! Soha ne add fel. Nincs sárga kérem!!! No Chris Kavanagh doesn't live in Ashton or even in the Greater Manchester area!!
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bmb

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Re: Football referees win HMRC case over employment status
« Reply #3 on: Thu 06 Sep 2018 20:34 »
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Hajrá Lilák. Csak a Kispest. Hajrá Magyarok! Hajrá játékvezetői csapat! Soha ne add fel. Nincs sárga kérem!!! No Chris Kavanagh doesn't live in Ashton or even in the Greater Manchester area!!
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Acme Thunderer

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Re: Football referees win HMRC case over employment status
« Reply #4 on: Fri 07 Sep 2018 15:39 »
According to the Times, 'other fields' mentioned during the hearing include the clergy and lap dancers  ;D
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ajb95

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Re: Football referees win HMRC case over employment status
« Reply #5 on: Fri 07 Sep 2018 15:50 »
Are the clergy not accountable to their respective churches/diocese, ie the bishop of Liverpool is employed by the Catholic Church therefore accountable to the pope?
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Acme Thunderer

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Re: Football referees win HMRC case over employment status
« Reply #6 on: Sat 08 Sep 2018 10:07 »
Quote from: ajb95 on Fri 07 Sep 2018 15:50
Are the clergy not accountable to their respective churches/diocese, ie the bishop of Liverpool is employed by the Catholic Church therefore accountable to the pope?

Not sure about the Catholic church, but in a test case a few years back, a sacked or redundant Church of England priest was found not to be employed as such by the Church and was ultimately accountable only to the Almighty! The Bishop and Archbishop as such had only sapiential authority over the priest rather than direct. The same applies I believe to Uber drivers and couriers (although not accountable to the Almighty!).

As a lay person, I do not know the detail of this or other cases. However I feel the results of this latest case are logical in that referees below SG1/2 pick up fees for their refereeing, they make their own work, pension and insurance arrangements, and they are not employed by anybody, as such, for their refereeing work. I have considerable doubts whether any appeal by the HMRC would be successful.   
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bmb

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Re: Football referees win HMRC case over employment status
« Reply #7 on: Sat 08 Sep 2018 13:38 »
Quote from: Acme Thunderer on Sat 08 Sep 2018 10:07
Quote from: ajb95 on Fri 07 Sep 2018 15:50
Are the clergy not accountable to their respective churches/diocese, ie the bishop of Liverpool is employed by the Catholic Church therefore accountable to the pope?

Not sure about the Catholic church, but in a test case a few years back, a sacked or redundant Church of England priest was found not to be employed as such by the Church and was ultimately accountable only to the Almighty! The Bishop and Archbishop as such had only sapiential authority over the priest rather than direct. The same applies I believe to Uber drivers and couriers (although not accountable to the Almighty!).

I did wonder of they would be considered to be purely accountable to a higher authority! As for Uber & couriers in relation to some of the things shouted their way as they randomly weave in and out of traffic, who knows...
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Hajrá Lilák. Csak a Kispest. Hajrá Magyarok! Hajrá játékvezetői csapat! Soha ne add fel. Nincs sárga kérem!!! No Chris Kavanagh doesn't live in Ashton or even in the Greater Manchester area!!

OwdReds

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Re: Football referees win HMRC case over employment status
« Reply #8 on: Mon 10 Sep 2018 11:58 »
As a member of the clergy (Methodist) we are treated as employed for tax purposes by HMRC but self employed in relation to employment law as backed up by the case a few years ago.
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bmb

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Re: Football referees win HMRC case over employment status
« Reply #9 on: Mon 10 Sep 2018 16:02 »
Quote from: OwdReds on Mon 10 Sep 2018 11:58
As a member of the clergy (Methodist) we are treated as employed for tax purposes by HMRC but self employed in relation to employment law as backed up by the case a few years ago.

That is rediculous - so the HMRC want more taxes off of you but you don't get the same protections under employment law.
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Hajrá Lilák. Csak a Kispest. Hajrá Magyarok! Hajrá játékvezetői csapat! Soha ne add fel. Nincs sárga kérem!!! No Chris Kavanagh doesn't live in Ashton or even in the Greater Manchester area!!
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OwdReds

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Re: Football referees win HMRC case over employment status
« Reply #10 on: Tue 11 Sep 2018 08:27 »
I'm not sure how it works for the Armed Forces but we are supposed to have a Covenantal relationship rather than being directly employed which I think is a similar situation.
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QuoCob

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Re: Football referees win HMRC case over employment status
« Reply #11 on: Tue 11 Sep 2018 11:05 »
Quote from: OwdReds on Tue 11 Sep 2018 08:27
I'm not sure how it works for the Armed Forces but we are supposed to have a Covenantal relationship rather than being directly employed which I think is a similar situation.

The Armed Forces are employees of the Government and pay the same rates of tax on both earnings and pension as any other.
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olddeagle

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Re: Football referees win HMRC case over employment status
« Reply #12 on: Wed 12 Sep 2018 22:54 »
If anyone wants to read the full decision it's here (sorry about the length of the link), it contains a nice judicial tribute to the dedication of referees-

www.devereuxchambers.co.uk/assets/docs/news/JTM_GXH_AVN_SP_Decision_TC_2017_01162_Profession al_Game%20Match_Officals_Ltd_30_August_2018.pdf
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bmb

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Re: Football referees win HMRC case over employment status
« Reply #13 on: Thu 13 Sep 2018 01:12 »
Love lawyers - how to say in 1000 words where 10 would suffice! I did shudder a few times remembering having to study some of that case law during my law degree!!

Long but interesting read on the judgement though.
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Hajrá Lilák. Csak a Kispest. Hajrá Magyarok! Hajrá játékvezetői csapat! Soha ne add fel. Nincs sárga kérem!!! No Chris Kavanagh doesn't live in Ashton or even in the Greater Manchester area!!

Whistleblower

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Re: Football referees win HMRC case over employment status
« Reply #14 on: Thu 13 Sep 2018 14:03 »
...but think of the income each one of those 1000 words brings in bmb  ;)
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