Author Topic: FA defends use of VAR at only nine of 32 third-round FA Cup ties  (Read 1778 times)

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Readingfan

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Letís imagine that very clear penalties were missed both last night at Swindon and this afternoon at Crystal Palace by the on-field officials; would you rather:

1) there is no VAR on either game, so we have two crucial mistakes

2) there is VAR in all games it is possible to have, so after intervention if it was corrected at CP, now we only have one crucial mistake

Surely we agree itís the second option, right?

I think the problem is that people donít really like VAR in general (because there was never this philosophical discussion about GLT), which given the ineptitude of the PGMOL rollout in our country, is understandable. :)



Number 1 for me.

Imagine if those very clear penalties were missed in Swindon Town v Manchester City, Birmingham City v Plymouth Argyle or any one of the games with no VAR and therefore won't be corrected, unlike in the games with VAR.

1) Where is the fairness then?
2) Where is the level playing field?
3) How does that not adversely affect the integrity of the competition?

Every single team deserves to start on a level playing field and if that means more crucial errors then so be it. It might remind everyone why VAR was introduced & see it more accepted!

Why should some teams have the advantage of crucial mistakes being corrected by VAR and others not? It completely removes any fairness imo. I accept other views/opinions but for me it has to be all or nothing because it removes any fairness or level playing field otherwise.
It's the same for both teams competing in one particular match.
If Reading had been knocked out because of an incorrect decision caused by not having VAR or GLT today then I wouldn't be bothered if Manchester United V Aston Villa had both of those things, because we'd be out anyway.

There are clearly multiple different factors that can affect different cup games - the very fact that one team gets drawn at home to Man City and another gets drawn at home to Chesterfield for instance. In many ways, this is just another thing that is dependent on the draw. Any team has the opportunity of being drawn away to a Premier League team.

And of course some teams will have one of the best SG1 referees whilst some will have one of the weakest NL officials. I just don't think it's really possible to make like for like comparisons between different games in the competition.
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Readingfan

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I am with bmb on this one, either var at every game at each round or no game in that round has var.


Also There were two handball incidents in the game at Hull tonight, both against the same team, which ought to have resulted in penalties and most probably would have with var available.

Lastly if mourinho was a referee you could park the var van on the field preferably in front of one of the goals.
I don't really understand the round specific argument - what difference does it really make if you get knocked out in fourth round or fifth round? Surely that is still having some games have VAR and not others but just in a slightly different way.

When the topic comes up, people often seem to refer to incorrect decisions in games not having VAR but I'm not sure how getting rid of VAR completely puts us in a better place. The two incorrect decisions at Hull would still have happened. If it's an argument for trying to extend use of VAR as far as possible then I'd agree.

OwdReds

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BMB. You're spot on about the car park at Luton except for the names of the roads. It's on the corner of Clifton Road and Oak Road with access to the club's offices going under Clifton Road. The car park can be seen clearly on Google Maps.
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Claretman

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I am with bmb on this one, either var at every game at each round or no game in that round has var.


Also There were two handball incidents in the game at Hull tonight, both against the same team, which ought to have resulted in penalties and most probably would have with var available.

Lastly if mourinho was a referee you could park the var van on the field preferably in front of one of the goals.
I don't really understand the round specific argument - what difference does it really make if you get knocked out in fourth round or fifth round? Surely that is still having some games have VAR and not others but just in a slightly different way.

When the topic comes up, people often seem to refer to incorrect decisions in games not having VAR but I'm not sure how getting rid of VAR completely puts us in a better place. The two incorrect decisions at Hull would still have happened. If it's an argument for trying to extend use of VAR as far as possible then I'd agree.

The argument is for a level playing field for all sides, ie if one game in any round var cannot be in place then no game in that round has var similar to the league cup. The reason for mentioning round by round is the later in the
Competition, ie quarter or semi finals, you get the more likelihood var can be in place all the grounds in that round.

My preference would be for the tournament to be var free altogether as In the football league.

sastley

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Just a thought on VAR/NoVAR. Having watched the Hull v Everton game where I feel Kevin Friend missed two penalties and a probable red card, are some SG1 officials relying too much on VAR and not making some decisions during Premiership games knowing they will be bailed out. This backfires when they have games with no VAR and they are not officiating correctly expecting VAR to make things right. If this is so they should be given more Championship games or not given FA cup games with no VAR. As i said, just a thought. Alternatively did Kevin Friend just have a poor game?
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Readingfan

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I am with bmb on this one, either var at every game at each round or no game in that round has var.


Also There were two handball incidents in the game at Hull tonight, both against the same team, which ought to have resulted in penalties and most probably would have with var available.

Lastly if mourinho was a referee you could park the var van on the field preferably in front of one of the goals.
I don't really understand the round specific argument - what difference does it really make if you get knocked out in fourth round or fifth round? Surely that is still having some games have VAR and not others but just in a slightly different way.

When the topic comes up, people often seem to refer to incorrect decisions in games not having VAR but I'm not sure how getting rid of VAR completely puts us in a better place. The two incorrect decisions at Hull would still have happened. If it's an argument for trying to extend use of VAR as far as possible then I'd agree.

The argument is for a level playing field for all sides, ie if one game in any round var cannot be in place then no game in that round has var similar to the league cup. The reason for mentioning round by round is the later in the
Competition, ie quarter or semi finals, you get the more likelihood var can be in place all the grounds in that round.

My preference would be for the tournament to be var free altogether as In the football league.
Whilst I personally disagree with the idea of a VAR-free tournament, as I think you should do all you can to correct incorrect decisions where you can, I find the argument for not using VAR at all a more coherent one than those who suggest not introducing it until it can be used in every game in a particular round.

The latter approach introduces a system where a game like Manchester United V Aston Villa wouldn't have VAR if it was played in the third round but might well if it was played in the fifth round. If the argument against it is it's not right for some teams to progress/be eliminated because of VAR when other teams don't have it, then this would not be overcome. It would just suggest that the third round is not as important as later stages of the competition. 

Microscopist

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I suppose they could develop a VAR-lite which would use fewer cameras and would be portable needing only a room somewhere in the ground, It would check only goals, penalties and when the referee has awarded a red card.  Any offside decisions would simply be checked by eye. A single operative sending images to the 4th official.
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TheThingFromLewes

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Just a thought on VAR/NoVAR. Having watched the Hull v Everton game where I feel Kevin Friend missed two penalties and a probable red card, are some SG1 officials relying too much on VAR and not making some decisions during Premiership games knowing they will be bailed out. This backfires when they have games with no VAR and they are not officiating correctly expecting VAR to make things right. If this is so they should be given more Championship games or not given FA cup games with no VAR. As i said, just a thought. Alternatively did Kevin Friend just have a poor game?

And these issues are common place when SG1 are deposited in the FL. Thereís been a lot of dross when this happens in the Championship.

nemesis

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Contrary to what many people seem to think, the FA Cup does not start in January. It started back on Friday 6th August at a handful of lowly non-league grounds. Even moving forward 3 months to the start of the Competition proper, this started at Sudbury's modest, but well equipped for their level, ground with their 3G pitch. It is unrealistic to expect all rounds to be treated the same (unless that means no VAR whatsoever).
As for treating all matches in the same round, the same   ....... why?  Fairness is both teams being treated the same in each game. It seems perverse to not use something which is designed to improve fairness, as much as possible.

(The fact that some of the decisions made by VAR are staggeringly inept anyway is a completely different issue.)
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Readingfan

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Contrary to what many people seem to think, the FA Cup does not start in January. It started back on Friday 6th August at a handful of lowly non-league grounds. Even moving forward 3 months to the start of the Competition proper, this started at Sudbury's modest, but well equipped for their level, ground with their 3G pitch. It is unrealistic to expect all rounds to be treated the same (unless that means no VAR whatsoever).
As for treating all matches in the same round, the same   ....... why?  Fairness is both teams being treated the same in each game. It seems perverse to not use something which is designed to improve fairness, as much as possible.

(The fact that some of the decisions made by VAR are staggeringly inept anyway is a completely different issue.)
Indeed - as I've said before, if you're arguing for all or nothing in the FA Cup then you're really arguing for nothing. It simply isn't viable to use VAR in every single match from August through to May.

Ref Watcher

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As for treating all matches in the same round, the same   ....... why?  Fairness is both teams being treated the same in each game. It seems perverse to not use something which is designed to improve fairness, as much as possible.
Agreed.  The logical extension of not using VAR despite it being available would be to not use any FIFA referees unless all the games can have one.
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Acme Thunderer

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VAR at Wembley for the semis and final but not otherwise.

stig231

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Quote
Drawing the offside lines would be a significant problem.

Why? Is only one person allowed access to the crayons at any one time  ;)  :)

Acme Thunderer

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Am I correct in thinking that the C Palace v Hartlepool 4th round tie will have VAR, with VAR and AVAR appointments going with it, whilst the TV game between Nottingham Forest and (PL) Leicester won't have it? No disrespect to Hartlepool, but it does seem a bit nonsensical if that is the case. I repeat, semi finals and final - Yes, the rest - No.
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Affy_Moose

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Contrary to what many people seem to think, the FA Cup does not start in January. It started back on Friday 6th August at a handful of lowly non-league grounds. Even moving forward 3 months to the start of the Competition proper, this started at Sudbury's modest, but well equipped for their level, ground with their 3G pitch. It is unrealistic to expect all rounds to be treated the same (unless that means no VAR whatsoever).
As for treating all matches in the same round, the same   ....... why?  Fairness is both teams being treated the same in each game. It seems perverse to not use something which is designed to improve fairness, as much as possible.

(The fact that some of the decisions made by VAR are staggeringly inept anyway is a completely different issue.)

Exactly. ĎFairnessí comes in many types. VAR existing in one cup game and not another - is not hugely different to a FIFA Elite referee officiating one game, and a L2 official at another. Thereís no sporting integrity issue here. Each team has precisely 50% chance of any incorrect decision being to their detriment or advantage in a VAR game, just as much as it does in any other.
« Last Edit: Sun 16 Jan 2022 15:36 by Affy_Moose »