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The sad truth is that peaceful protest nowadays is so often hijacked by those who enjoy provoking violence, destruction of property by wilful vandalism and endangering the safety of others particularly police officers. The rightness of the cause is taken as a veil to hide criminal and wanton behaviour. In my time I have taken part in various protests but I would be extremely reluctant to do so now because even at the best organised and policed protests ( and today at Old Trafford appeared to be neither of those ) there is always the potential for malefactors to use the opportunity to cause serious trouble.

Will Manchester United be deducted points? It must certainly be a possibility but that is desperately hard on genuine and peaceful supporters and those who play for and work at the Club.

It may be that they have already spoken but I would hope to hear that some great Man Utd luminaries will be unequivocal and strident in condemning this violence.

Once again, wise words from Whistleblower.

Perhaps those shouting for a points deduction should remember what action was taken against Liverpool FC after some fans violently attacked and badly damaged the Manchester City team coach on its way to Anfield in 2018.  It was a European game as I recall and the fines were just over 20,000 euros according to one report I read. A pittance really. In this instance, the decent fans had a genuine underlying grievance, spoiled as all too often by rent-a-mob.  What were Liverpool fans protesting about in attacking the City coach, or was it just sheer vandalism, that drew such modest fines? 

In no way am I condoning the actions of a minority yesterday or the injuries to police officers, but let's get a sense of perspective compared to previous incidents and the punishments handed out.  Some will argue stronger action is necessary but that could only exacerbate existing grievances.

Meanwhile, perhaps Gary Neville might reflect on his rant yesterday and find a little more space to be critical of the hooligan element amongst the protesters.  For once, I found myself more in sympathy with Graeme Souness. 

No one there was an "innocent protester".  The protest was illegal and therefore no one there can be described as being innocent as they were clearly breaking the law.

A significant points deduction must now follow. 15 at least I would suggest 🤔

How's that fair on the majority of fans. That's an absolutely ludicrous statement. Those individuals need to be punished if anyone is to be. I support Liverpool. Even I know it wouldn't be fair for a points deduction. Same with the ESL

Or our “incredible” media could actually report on the protests and its merits rather than a race to the bottom mosh just to sell papers.

No one seems to have picked up the seriousness of the point raised in my second to last post. The government has OUTLAWED the right to protest under the guise of COVID restrictions. That is now on the statute book so requires an act of parliament to overturn it.
Does anyone really think come July when all restrictions are lifted that the ban on protests will be lifted when then government has a majority of 80?

EDIT: I have also just seen a separate report showing police officers of GMP attacking innocent protesters - one 4 police officers dragging a young guy across the floor. I suppose such heavy handed tactics will be defended.

It’s no wonder some people (idiots) are calling for cuts to police funding !

Excellent post, thank you.  Protests and dissent are slowly but surely being outlawed in this country by various means.  As I said previously, the official line is that fans have various routes to protest.  But it just isn't true, clubs and authorities simply ignore them.  The concept of 'fit and proper' in the running of clubs is a joke and there are many examples.  Money talks, fans don't matter.  As Souness said, next time it will all just happen without notice.

I absolutely agree about the legal right to protest being removed.  Covid has been used aas an excuse to silence dissent and that will stay for as long as this government remains.  Standards in football are symptomatic of standards in public life.  It's all about the money and there is no longer even a pretence to the contrary.  None of us seem to matter any more.

All clubs have a "lunatic fringe" of fans who will exploit any situation with violence.  So it is with rather more of a sense of "there for the grace of God...." rather than a "holier than thou..." that I write here.   It is also with a sense of foreboding as to what might happen at tomorrow evening's game with PSG - be it from City's lunatic fringe or from others masquerading as City fans.  I was greatly saddened by the attitude of Gary Neville and Jamie Carragher in encouraging the protest.  Perhaps they have their own personal, or maybe even a Sky, agenda.  Those agenda's may have noble origins but constantly downplaying the consequences of yesterday's protest rather tarnishes them in my eyes.

It is difficult for any club to have much influence over their lunatic fringe but United surely have to answer questions about how the crowd got into the ground.  Negligence or complicity seem to be the main possibilities and in either case United have to explain.

It appears that United were fortunate in that the police advised against the game going ahead and that may, in the light of EPL rules, lessen their responsibility.  Perhaps if the Merseyside police had been more proficient and UEFA less lenient when City's coach (and more recently Real Madrid's) were attacked then there would have been a greater incentive to avoid yesterday's events.

Have we heard any comment from any of City's fans against their benevolent owners?

Quote from: bruntyboy on Mon 03 May 2021 15:54

Have we heard any comment from any of City's fans against their benevolent owners?

We won't because City fans will laugh it up whilst they win things even when rules are broken etc. It is well documented what happened with FFP - found guilty by UEFA but let off with a fine that wouldnt even hit a week's worth of oil money

Found guilty by UEFA yes, but a subsequent ruling by an independent body found that the charges laid against the club were flawed. I think the terminology used by the Court of Arbitration for Sport [CAS] was “time-barred”, which when translated meant that UEFA were trying to find City guilty of an offence that predated the inception of their flawed FFP model. I haven’t searched for this, but I seem to remember CAS also commented on the fact that since the inception of UEFA’s flawed FFP concept, City had been wholly compliant.

I’ve heard this comment banded round a little bit recently, with what’s happening at other clubs. I find it truly abhorrent that City would have even contemplated joining a European elite which would have completely decimated the game as we know it. Am I going to lambast them for that? Sure as hell I am.
I’m certainly not going to protest against the ownership though, or how we’re being run, because we’re being run very, very well.
What HH Sheikh Mansour has done for Manchester City, and more importantly, East Manchester, will never be forgotten. Single handedly transforming one of Manchester’s poorest suburbs with injections into Housing, Infrastructure and Health, to make it one of the most popular and sought after areas for first home buyers within the M postcode is amazing, especially considering what that area of Manchester looked like during my childhood.

Couple that with the creation of the City Football Group (CFG) and how self sufficient we are as a Club/Business and I think you will be very, very hard pressed to find a City fan who is dead against how Manchester City is run.
I saw something on social media recently which nailed it perfectly for me, from one of the blue tick brigade.
It was something along the lines of; “City fans aren’t protesting because they don’t care, they’re not protesting because their club is run how the fans of the other clubs wish theirs was run.”

EDIT: I have also just seen a separate report showing police officers of GMP attacking innocent protesters - one 4 police officers dragging a young guy across the floor. I suppose such heavy handed tactics will be defended.

It’s no wonder some people (idiots) are calling for cuts to police funding !

ajb95 does have a point though.  There have been pictures at other demonstrations where the impression given is that sometimes the police pick on easy targets and not those causing the mayhem.

I would be very careful of assuming anything from footage of police allegedly attacking "innocent protesters". 

First and foremost the genuine protesters were the ones behaving themselves, they were the ones holding up their placards, chanting their opinions on their owners whilst managing to also conduct themselves in a seemly manner.  I get both the point any demonstration was illegal under the covid laws (whatever way you look at it that is a fact - now whether any of us agree with that being the law is a completely different matter!) and also that our rights to protest are being eroded and agree with both! The bill the government are trying to get through now abolishing the right to protest is proof they want that right abolished, hence why there has been so many 'kill the bill' protests recently.

Unfortunately in many ways the right to a peaceful protest has just as much been taken away by the 'rent a mob' as it has by the government. By that I mean that it doesn't matter what a demo is about, it doesn't matter how peacefully it is planned, it doesn't matter what steps the organisers have put in to ensure social distancing, the wearing of masks to comply as much as possible with covid rules, how much they have emphasised that it will be a sit down protest or 100% peaceful, you can guarantee as sure as night becomes day that the rent a mob will turn up and cause carnage.  They are there to cause damage, to attack police and generally behave lawlessly. We've seen it time & again, the BLM protests, the save the statue protests, the kill the bill protests, a vigil over a murdered woman was even considered fair game for them. They prevent peaceful protests from being able to take place & it is partially down to them this horrendous bill is in parliament at the moment.

Onto the footage of officers allegedly attacking protesters. I'm as pro police as they come, I mix socially with a lot of police officers, I'll say that straight away and I will also add that there are times when I think police should/could have handled things better or at least differently and nor do I believe they are all perfect.  There are bad apples amongst them & I accept that, as a fact as opposed to accepting their conduct! One of the recent protests, I think it was the vigil for Sarah Everard I completely lost my temper with a few police friends over some footage which showed officers allegedly attacking some 'poor innocent woman' then the full footage came out, the bit you didn't get to see on Twitter and YouTube or in the mainstream media along with the footage of a group of big burly policemen restraining this poor little lady for no reason and there she was spitting in an officers face, screaming in their faces she wanted to kill them, they deserved to be murdered, slapping a female officer around the face, throwing things at them and various other niceties. The media photos, the Twitter clips, the YouTube clips all had her as some poor innocent lady brutalised by out of control officers - the full footage, available on YouTube showed a completely different story. The trouble with the little clips is they only show the parts they want you to see, everything else is edited out. They won't show the metal barrier or whatever thrown seconds before, they won't show the spitting in police faces etc because that does not fit the narrative, they will however show the police chase as a result or the police taking them down as a result because that does fit the narrative.

Those who attended the planned peaceful protest with the intent to cause trouble, the ones who were involved in the throwing of smoke bombs/fireworks and anything else they could get their hands on, those who broke into the ground stole stuff, caused damage did so not because they give a stuff about the ESL or holding club owners to account but because it gave them an opportunity to act lawlessly. They took away the headlines as they always do, at every peaceful protest. They do anger me!