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Author Topic: EFL Championship Controversies......  (Read 1553 times)

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UmpireIan49

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EFL Championship Controversies......
« on: Sat 20 Nov 2021 21:57 »
The Championship saw some controversial incidents today, two of which involved Select Group 1 referees.

Sheffield United v Coventry - Michael Salisbury cautioned a Coventry player for simulation when he seemed to be fouled in the penalty area.

Hull v Birmingham - Tony Harrington and/or his assistant failed to spot the ball going a good six to eight inches over the byline before Hull scored. To everyone’s amazement, the goal was given.

Swansea v Blackpool - Keith Stroud had three Swansea penalty appeals to judge, the first two not penalties, the third a penalty. None given.

Middlesbrough v Millwall - An assistant raised his flag for a Middlesbrough free kick in the Millwall half , Oliver Langford overruled him, waved play on whereupon Millwall went down the other end and scored.

So, some controversial events in the Championship today, Hull especially grateful there’s no VAR to judge that particular incident.

Who’d be a referee?

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bmb

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Re: EFL Championship Controversies......
« Reply #1 on: Sat 20 Nov 2021 22:10 »
Controversy in the championship seems to follow Tony Harrington around.
Hajrá Lilák. Csak a Kispest. Hajrá Magyarok! Hajrá játékvezetői csapat! Soha ne add fel. Nincs sárga kérem!!! No Chris Kavanagh doesn't live in Ashton or even in the Greater Manchester area!!

Mackem ref

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Re: EFL Championship Controversies......
« Reply #2 on: Sun 21 Nov 2021 00:41 »
I’m not sure Harrington can share any of the blame for that one - it’s 100% an assistant referee decision.

As for Langford….wow!

Acme Thunderer

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Re: EFL Championship Controversies......
« Reply #3 on: Mon 22 Nov 2021 08:52 »
With regard to the Hull incident, I have some sympathy for Harrington and his AR, the ball being on the other side of the goal from the AR and the goal posts and players getting in the way of a good view of the incident. Did we not have a similar incident when Hawkeye was available but couldn't tell whether a good goal had been scored? We often say on RTR that officials shouldn't guess and here is a case in point. It is a pity that VAR was not available to clear up a controversial incident directly leading to a crucial goal in Hull's attempts to get clear of the relegation area.

Sheffield United - at first sight, I thought Salisbury was correct to caution for simulation. A different angle and slowing it down suggested otherwise but Salisbury did not have that available to him.

Swansea - agree with you re the penalty appeals (Stroud).

Boro - wow, Langford was either brave or foolhardy. My suggestion is the latter. You don't often see a ref overruling an AR where the incident was right in front of the AR, and I have to say I thought Langford was wrong to do so in this instance.

Joecphillips

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Re: EFL Championship Controversies......
« Reply #4 on: Mon 22 Nov 2021 09:15 »
With regard to the Hull incident, I have some sympathy for Harrington and his AR, the ball being on the other side of the goal from the AR and the goal posts and players getting in the way of a good view of the incident. Did we not have a similar incident when Hawkeye was available but couldn't tell whether a good goal had been scored? We often say on RTR that officials shouldn't guess and here is a case in point. It is a pity that VAR was not available to clear up a controversial incident directly leading to a crucial goal in Hull's attempts to get clear of the relegation area.

Sheffield United - at first sight, I thought Salisbury was correct to caution for simulation. A different angle and slowing it down suggested otherwise but Salisbury did not have that available to him.

Swansea - agree with you re the penalty appeals (Stroud).
Boro - wow, Langford was either brave or foolhardy. My suggestion is the latter. You don't often see a ref overruling an AR where the incident was right in front of the AR, and I have to say I thought Langford was wrong to do so in this instance.
The Hawkeye incident was Aston Villa v Sheffield United in the covid season which ended up saving villa. (Edited to Fix Quote Thing-Hertsref123)
« Last Edit: Mon 22 Nov 2021 09:51 by Hertsref123 »

Leggy

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Re: EFL Championship Controversies......
« Reply #5 on: Mon 22 Nov 2021 10:22 »
With regard to the Hull incident, I have some sympathy for Harrington and his AR, the ball being on the other side of the goal from the AR and the goal posts and players getting in the way of a good view of the incident. Did we not have a similar incident when Hawkeye was available but couldn't tell whether a good goal had been scored? We often say on RTR that officials shouldn't guess and here is a case in point. It is a pity that VAR was not available to clear up a controversial incident directly leading to a crucial goal in Hull's attempts to get clear of the relegation area.

Sheffield United - at first sight, I thought Salisbury was correct to caution for simulation. A different angle and slowing it down suggested otherwise but Salisbury did not have that available to him.

Swansea - agree with you re the penalty appeals (Stroud).
Boro - wow, Langford was either brave or foolhardy. My suggestion is the latter. You don't often see a ref overruling an AR where the incident was right in front of the AR, and I have to say I thought Langford was wrong to do so in this instance.
The Hawkeye incident was Aston Villa v Sheffield United in the covid season which ended up saving villa. (Edited to Fix Quote Thing-Hertsref123)

I can understand players blocking the AR's view, but not the frame of the goal.  The posts and cross-bar should be the same width as the goal-line, meaning that - when the AR is looking along the goal-line they represent a single plane line.  You would need to see the ball fully beyond the plane (of goal-line and goal-frame) to indicate that it was out of play.

RefObserver

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Re: EFL Championship Controversies......
« Reply #6 on: Mon 22 Nov 2021 11:32 »
Sheffield United v Coventry - For me this is simulation. The contact is minimal and not enough for a foul to be awarded. The attacker takes another step before falling to the ground with his left leg unnaturally behind him.

Hull v Birmingham - If you look the keeper sliding in to block is the one in the way of the AR. I think it is just "one of those" where the perfect storm sees an error made. Only suggestion is could the referee have seen it if he had squeezed further in towards the goal line - probably given how clear it was.

Swansea v Blackpool - I agree, one penalty missed.

Middlesbrough v Millwall - Initially I believe the AR is at fault here for flagging so quickly. Having Comms, the advice should be just state verbally first that you think it is a foul then signal if the referee agrees or says nothing. Clearly, given the half hearted signal, as he goes up the referee is stating he is happy and does not see a foul. Referee is well positioned and probably has a better angle so his call for me.
To then over rule is unusual but he is team leader. Would make for an interesting changing room post match!
Brave or foolish - I can't decide.........
« Last Edit: Mon 22 Nov 2021 14:30 by RefObserver »
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ajb95

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Re: EFL Championship Controversies......
« Reply #7 on: Mon 22 Nov 2021 12:33 »
At least Ward finally gave a correct penalty decision at Derby on Sunday! 😅👍

DBLTFC

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Re: EFL Championship Controversies......
« Reply #8 on: Wed 24 Nov 2021 20:58 »
As I mentioned earlier in the season, the standard has gone through the floor it feels this season with each of the promotions.
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Hughesy66

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Re: EFL Championship Controversies......
« Reply #9 on: Thu 25 Nov 2021 00:36 »
It staggers me that we see performances like that of S Barratt last week who was clearly very good and also the vast experience of Bobby Madley hanging around in League 1 and 2.
IIRC Madley came off the list for personal reasons which were well documented, not because of his performances. Surely if they have brought him back then they should be bringing him into the Championship fold midway through this season. Perhaps the likes of Barratt and Craig Hicks (who I rate highly) should join that list to raise the bar on what is turning out to be a very poor season for the Championship officials

RCG

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Re: EFL Championship Controversies......
« Reply #10 on: Thu 25 Nov 2021 17:24 »
Whilst Hughsy you have made many valid points the issue is 2 fold:
SG2 refs are full time, on a contract. This makes removal/demotion very difficult.
This links to 2nd point which is if you promote others do you not just end up with less games per referee?
Hard to remove a ref if you have given them targets to achieve then reduce the number of games they get.
I would love an insight into what "full time" or "professional" means at SG2 level as it would seem it certainly has not raised standards.

Affy_Moose

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Re: EFL Championship Controversies......
« Reply #11 on: Fri 26 Nov 2021 10:51 »
Whilst Hughsy you have made many valid points the issue is 2 fold:
SG2 refs are full time, on a contract. This makes removal/demotion very difficult.
This links to 2nd point which is if you promote others do you not just end up with less games per referee?
Hard to remove a ref if you have given them targets to achieve then reduce the number of games they get.
I would love an insight into what "full time" or "professional" means at SG2 level as it would seem it certainly has not raised standards.

Only minor quibble I'd have on the last point is, if you watch back on old videos over the last 10, 20, 30 years, the standard of officiating at all senior levels in England, Scotland, and probably elsewhere has improved dramatically.

I did some work on the Premier League referees since 1992, and finding photos of officials in the early 1990s, the standards of fitness and presentation alone are staggeringly different to now.

My suggestion would be that whilst performances have improved, exposure of officials and decisions, and the tendency to criticise (particularly online, but occasionally here) decisions by laypeople who don't fully understand Law or application, have increased beyond any sensible level of nuance.
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RCG

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Re: EFL Championship Controversies......
« Reply #12 on: Fri 26 Nov 2021 14:52 »
My argument is I dont think SG2 refs are any better than those on the NL. Yes, fitness has improved, body shape etc but that was changing anyway. I dont think SG2 are noticeably better since they went full time
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