+-

+-User

Welcome, Guest.
Please login or register.
 
 
 

Login with your social network

Forgot your password?

+-Stats ezBlock

Members
Total Members: 953
Latest: Yorksref
New This Month: 21
New This Week: 3
New Today: 1
Stats
Total Posts: 75100
Total Topics: 5526
Most Online Today: 148
Most Online Ever: 17046
(Mon 29 Mar 2021 19:08)
Users Online
Members: 8
Guests: 101
Total: 109

Author Topic: D COOTE - Brighton v Soton  (Read 1824 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

QuoCob

  • RTR Veterans
  • Sr. Member
  • *
  • Posts: 464
  • Gender: Male
  • L5/Ageing but still active...
  • Location: Hampshire
    • View Profile
Re: D COOTE - Brighton v Soton
« Reply #15 on: Tue 08 Dec 2020 06:41 »
Good decision, the foul continued into the penalty area.  If the official blew his whistle for the first offence/contact, that's a mistake by him in not allowing it to develop before the challenge had been completed.
“They shall grow not old as we that are left grow old:
Age shall not weary them, nor the years condemn.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning
We will remember them.”  Laurence Binyon

dave26

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 660
    • View Profile
Re: D COOTE - Brighton v Soton
« Reply #16 on: Tue 08 Dec 2020 08:44 »
Coote's overall handling on the game was very good and I'm not his biggest fan.

I said after the Man Utd vs West Brom watch I was impressed with Coote I think he is a very good referee and needs regular appointments in the middle to firmly establish himself but his VAR duties leaves a lot to be desired
Agree Agree x 2 View List

Ashington46

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 831
  • Gender: Male
  • Location: Ashington, Northumberland
    • View Profile
  • Referee Level: Retired for years!
Re: D COOTE - Brighton v Soton
« Reply #17 on: Tue 08 Dec 2020 09:36 »
Coote's overall handling on the game was very good and I'm not his biggest fan.

I said after the Man Utd vs West Brom watch I was impressed with Coote I think he is a very good referee and needs regular appointments in the middle to firmly establish himself but his VAR duties leaves a lot to be desired

He has been good when I have seen him in the middle, however, he will be remembered for his involvement with VAR rather than his onfield performances and last night will only add to that, even though he was in the middle.

It is becoming more and more common amongst fans that, when they hear of the appointment of the referee to the game, they also ask who is doing VAR!
We can argue on here about VAR, we can listen to ex-referees pontificating about VAR, we can listen to the media rattling on about VAR, however, these too are only opinions, which we are entitled to, but count for absolutely nothing because the result depended, not on the decisions by onfield officials, but on the input from VAR.
FIFA's quest for the perfect game goes on relentlessly, aided and abetted by changes in the Laws and their interpretation, however, they are likely to find cures for lots of ailments before any of us see the perfect game of football. The quest goes on ---at the expense of the game!
Referee's decision used to be final!
Agree Agree x 1 View List

Claretman

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,119
  • Gender: Male
  • Location: Nth lincs
    • View Profile
  • Referee Level: Retired local league
Re: D COOTE - Brighton v Soton
« Reply #18 on: Tue 08 Dec 2020 09:43 »
PGMOL have even surprised me with a statement...

They’ve said the video review area was not required due to the decision being a factual one.

A bland, boring and frankly odious response to a decision.

I look forward to hearing what Hackett thinks of it....

Personally i dont think it was a factual decision, from the distance the free kick was given outside the penalty area,
You would assume the referee blew for the first offence. If this is the case then var can only judge on the
First offence. If the pgmol are intimating in their statement that mr coote didnt blow for the initial foul then fair enough then the var can intervene if a clear and obvious error had been made, but the only way to be sure is to hear the audio between ref and var as in other sports.

I thought mr coote handled the game very well in general and seems to developing well, a bit of a surprise to me
As i wasnt particularly impressed by him when sg2.



Seagull

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 500
  • Gender: Male
  • Location: Maidstone
    • View Profile
  • Referee Level: Retired 1998 (old Class 2)
Re: D COOTE - Brighton v Soton
« Reply #19 on: Tue 08 Dec 2020 10:34 »
As a Seagulls fan, my opinion is that it was so borderline whether the foul was outside or inside the penalty area that the "benefit of the doubt" should have prevailed and the original on-field decision by Mr. Coote should have stood. The replays from various angles were too inconclusive, in my opinion, for Mr. Bankes to make a finite decision. My suggestion that the replays were inconclusive is supported by the number of times (about 15?) that Mr. Bankes evidently needed to view the incident before coming to a decision. If it's that unclear, which I suggest it was, then the original decision should stand.
Agree Agree x 1 View List

Failed Ref

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 381
    • View Profile
Re: D COOTE - Brighton v Soton
« Reply #20 on: Tue 08 Dec 2020 11:09 »
Maybe the attacker's armpit was in the box? Of course the line forms part of the penalty area and I hate it when a player tries to foul a player just on the edge of the box so if a penalty is given I have no sympathy for the defender whatsoever. OK, not in the Laws but I have little sympathy for Brighton.
Dealing with fact and LOG, I felt it was a penalty and of course VAR has to make a decision one way or another based on fact. Benefit of doubt, clear and obvious just does not come into it. As for Mr. Coote, I have to say that he is rather a good referee. His VAR decisions have let him down but the fact is that he is developing nicely.
Disagree Disagree x 5 View List

Readingfan

  • RTR Veterans
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 2,443
    • View Profile
Re: D COOTE - Brighton v Soton
« Reply #21 on: Tue 08 Dec 2020 12:10 »
When I heard on commentary last night that Bankes was Coote's VAR, I did wonder if that was a wise appointment!

As others have said, this is where being able to hear the referee would help a lot. Did Coote only give foul for a shove or did he think second part was also a continuation of the foul but wasn't sure where it had ended?

I don't really agree with the view of 'no one would have argued' or 'too close to call' because one thing we know for sure is people will argue with pretty much any VAR decision and I think the VARs have an active duty to make what they believe the correct decision rather than just shrugging their shoulders and saying 'to be honest mate, I'm not too sure'.




nemesis

  • RTR Veterans
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1,277
    • View Profile
Re: D COOTE - Brighton v Soton
« Reply #22 on: Tue 08 Dec 2020 15:30 »
Maybe the attacker's armpit was in the box? Of course the line forms part of the penalty area and I hate it when a player tries to foul a player just on the edge of the box so if a penalty is given I have no sympathy for the defender whatsoever. OK, not in the Laws but I have little sympathy for Brighton.
Dealing with fact and LOG, I felt it was a penalty and of course VAR has to make a decision one way or another based on fact. Benefit of doubt, clear and obvious just does not come into it. As for Mr. Coote, I have to say that he is rather a good referee. His VAR decisions have let him down but the fact is that he is developing nicely.

 And he's not the only one. I'm prepared to accept our on-field referees are, by and large, the best we have, but clearly this same cohort of individuals falls a long way short of the standard required for VAR and its different skill set. The people in charge should embark on an immediate process to identify and recruit people who are far better at it. There must be many.
Agree Agree x 2 View List

REDSTRIPE

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 53
    • View Profile
Re: D COOTE - Brighton v Soton
« Reply #23 on: Tue 08 Dec 2020 16:56 »
Maybe the attacker's armpit was in the box? Of course the line forms part of the penalty area and I hate it when a player tries to foul a player just on the edge of the box so if a penalty is given I have no sympathy for the defender whatsoever. OK, not in the Laws but I have little sympathy for Brighton.
Dealing with fact and LOG, I felt it was a penalty and of course VAR has to make a decision one way or another based on fact. Benefit of doubt, clear and obvious just does not come into it. As for Mr. Coote, I have to say that he is rather a good referee. His VAR decisions have let him down but the fact is that he is developing nicely.

 And he's not the only one. I'm prepared to accept our on-field referees are, by and large, the best we have, but clearly this same cohort of individuals falls a long way short of the standard required for VAR and its different skill set. The people in charge should embark on an immediate process to identify and recruit people who are far better at it. There must be many.
I could do a better job for one.
mind you , depends if Riley and Swarbrook got to me and muddled my head
Funny Funny x 1 View List

guest379

  • Guest
Re: D COOTE - Brighton v Soton
« Reply #24 on: Tue 08 Dec 2020 21:16 »
Good decision, the foul continued into the penalty area.  If the official blew his whistle for the first offence/contact, that's a mistake by him in not allowing it to develop before the challenge had been completed.

No, no, no!  The foul does not continue, watch the footage, the foul is outside, then KWP puts his foot deliberately onto March.  There is no foul here inside the box whatsoever.  It's a joke of a decision.
Disagree Disagree x 2 View List

guest42

  • Guest
Re: D COOTE - Brighton v Soton
« Reply #25 on: Tue 08 Dec 2020 23:05 »
dammit - hit the wrong icon thing there - meant to agree with the post above.

To quote the NFL - there has to be "clear and uncontrovertible" video evidence for a call to be overturned - on the balance of probability - this failed to meet that test.

RefObserver

  • RTR Veterans
  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 151
    • View Profile
Re: D COOTE - Brighton v Soton
« Reply #26 on: Wed 09 Dec 2020 13:18 »
dammit - hit the wrong icon thing there - meant to agree with the post above.

To quote the NFL - there has to be "clear and uncontrovertible" video evidence for a call to be overturned - on the balance of probability - this failed to meet that test.


Look bottom right - "undo rating"

You can remove and replace with the one you want.

RefObserver

  • RTR Veterans
  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 151
    • View Profile
Re: D COOTE - Brighton v Soton
« Reply #27 on: Wed 09 Dec 2020 13:21 »
Interesting one for me regarding VAR protocol.

Yes, it is a factual decision (in or out) and as such protocol states the referee does not go over and view.
The problem with that is it is the VARs "opinion" that the foul was inside and as such, the fact is it's inside. But only in his OPINION.

I am actual in the penalty camp unlike most. At the time I said pen straight away as I thought the contact continued inside the area, but I agree it is a subjective decision as to if the contact met the threshold of a foul challenge.

As such, I think the protocol should be changed for such scenarios and the referee go over and have a look.

Ashington46

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 831
  • Gender: Male
  • Location: Ashington, Northumberland
    • View Profile
  • Referee Level: Retired for years!
Re: D COOTE - Brighton v Soton
« Reply #28 on: Wed 09 Dec 2020 13:45 »
Interesting one for me regarding VAR protocol.

Yes, it is a factual decision (in or out) and as such protocol states the referee does not go over and view.
The problem with that is it is the VARs "opinion" that the foul was inside and as such, the fact is it's inside. But only in his OPINION.

I am actual in the penalty camp unlike most. At the time I said pen straight away as I thought the contact continued inside the area, but I agree it is a subjective decision as to if the contact met the threshold of a foul challenge.

As such, I think the protocol should be changed for such scenarios and the referee go over and have a look.

In any game in England outside of the PL, Mr Coote would have given his decision of a free kick outside the area, bearing in mind that the AR was also relatively close to the incident, and the players would have accepted it and got on with  the game.
We may have discussed the incident on here and had divided opinions as to whether or not it was a foul outside or whether it had continued into the box, however, it would not have affected the original decision, it would just have been a talking point.

With the intervention of VAR, we have a penalty given, a goal scored, the result affected and both the referee and the VAR official being pilloried for getting it wrong as far as some are concerned and why?

I am sure that, without all this silly controversy caused solely by the use of VAR, David Coote could have gone home on Monday night and been happy with his performance because he did a good job, as he has done when on the field in several games.
Yes, the use of VAR is certainly improving the game.

By  the way, I am still looking for an answer to my question as to whether added time is being allowed for the occasions when a flag is not raised until well after an offside should have been flagged in order to satisfy VAR.
Referee's decision used to be final!

klhcms

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 12
    • View Profile
Re: D COOTE - Brighton v Soton
« Reply #29 on: Wed 09 Dec 2020 15:49 »
If mr coote has blown his whistle for a free kick outside the box, ie the first offence as he sees it, then he should have looked at the monitor himself. If he has indeed blown for the initial offence then play has stopped and
Therefore surely var cant give a penalty as play has stopped.
Again without being able to hear what the on field ref and the var have said to each other we will be non the wiser.
Personally i thought the foul outside the area given by mr coote was correct, but from the tv replays i couldnt
See whether any offence took place in the area or hear when the whistle was blown.

Think brighton may well have been unlucky with var on this occasion.


I'm sorry but that's simply not true and I don't think you can genuinely believe that either. You're suggesting that in the split second between the first contact and the players being laid on the floor in the penalty area, Coote had blown his whistle and therefore, anything that happened after he blew the whistle AT THE EXACT INSTANT contact was initially made is irrelevant? If so, Mr Coote has the best reaction times in history.