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Author Topic: Chris Kavanagh - Brighton v Man United  (Read 1770 times)

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Readingfan

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I don't really see how anyone can have an objection to the Brighton V Man Utd one. It's not even as if the players had to come back from the dressing room or anything (which is permitted but obviously would be a bit more chaotic.) It all happens very quickly and is clearly a penalty - imagine people's reactions if VAR wasn't allowed to correct a clear error because the referee happened to have blown for full time a second before. you'd just have loads of 'Where's the common sense?' and 'What's the point of having it then?'
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Readingfan

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According to the VAR protocol, the review process can take place AFTER the final whistle.

Excellent intervention by Simon Hooper.

How long after? Could the players be in the shower and then made to come back?

IFAB doesn't say. Apparently they are more interested in accuracy than the time.

The VAR protocol says 'The VAR is like an assistant referee - if an assistant referee is indicating an offence which occurred before the referee blew the whistle (for half time or full time), the referee can still take action as long as the referee has not left the field of play'.



guest379

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Mr Kavanagh decided to add 2 minutes to the allotted 5 minutes after Brighton equalised, then it appeared the attack leading to the corner was out of play (all Brighton players instinctively raised their arms and shouted at the official when not given). 

No issues that it was a penalty, only Maupay will know what he was doing, a liability.  But how it came about was not right, not right at all.  Sickening for Brighton.  Especially after the earlier overturned penalty, (removed, please do not question officials integrity)
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DublinRef

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Especially after the earlier overturned penalty, (removed content)

I must say the implicit (and sometimes not so implicit!) questioning of referees integrity is very tiresome. I've said before that this site is at its best when there is vigorous debate but questioning referees integrity without any cause whatsoever is imo a waste of time and quite boring. Apologies if I sound as if I'm moaning and I've nothing against TAGW indeed I've enjoyed some of your other debates. Anyway I've made my point!!

On Kavanagh - I would be interested to hear Edy's (and everyone else's!!) opinion on UEFA pushing him as they now appear to be, I was a big fan of him last season and feel he has potential but imo his form has dipped and other than age, I can't see where he is stronger than Pawson.
« Last Edit: Sat 26 Sep 2020 22:28 by Charlieboy »
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ajb95

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Mr Kavanagh decided to add 2 minutes to the allotted 5 minutes after Brighton equalised, then it appeared the attack leading to the corner was out of play (all Brighton players instinctively raised their arms and shouted at the official when not given). 

No issues that it was a penalty, only Maupay will know what he was doing, a liability.  But how it came about was not right, not right at all.  Sickening for Brighton.  Especially after the earlier overturned penalty, (content removed)
There was a 40 second stoppage for a substitution (91) and 70 second stoppage for the equaliser so Kavanagh correct to allow extra 2 minutes. Ball correctly goes out for a corner and Brighton player clearly handles it.
Don’t know what else to add: if they can’t defend a simple corner into the box then there’s no one to blame!

The Brighton penalty cancelled in second half reminded me of the Dan James penalty for Man U against Norwich last season when he initiates the Contact into the defender so IMO correct to rule no penalty
« Last Edit: Sat 26 Sep 2020 23:33 by Charlieboy »
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guest42

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According to the VAR protocol, the review process can take place AFTER the final whistle.

Excellent intervention by Simon Hooper.

In that case then - I’ve got some video from 1966 they can look at...
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Readingfan

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The thing with the time added is if March's header is saved and Brighton force a corner or two instead then they want the extra 30 seconds or so. I don't think there can have been too much more than that in terms of playing time. Gutting for Brighton of course after scoring so late but they should have defended better.


Leggy

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According to the VAR protocol, the review process can take place AFTER the final whistle.

Excellent intervention by Simon Hooper.

How long after? Could the players be in the shower and then made to come back?

IFAB doesn't say. Apparently they are more interested in accuracy than the time.

So common sense would suggest that the referee - even if he has blown the final whistle - tells the players to stay on the field of play while the VAR check takes place

Just as happens in cricket when the 10th wicket of an innings is reviewed - even if it is a wildly speculatively review because the team still has one to burn.

Opps - sorry, I have just realised that I have cited "common sense" - many apologies all  ;)
« Last Edit: Sun 27 Sep 2020 10:53 by Leggy »

Ref Fan

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On Kavanagh - I would be interested to hear Edy's (and everyone else's!!) opinion on UEFA pushing him as they now appear to be, I was a big fan of him last season and feel he has potential but imo his form has dipped and other than age, I can't see where he is stronger than Pawson.

Interesting point DublinRef.   From what I've seen since the resumption last season, I've been more impressed with Craig Pawson than Chris Kavanagh.
I recall edy's comments about Kavanagh and his highlighting various incidents in the U.E.F.A. Youth League Final. Personally I didn't think quite a number of those decisions were categorically wrong but it seemed he had a difficult game nevertheless.  Pawson's body language isn't always strong and there were times when his movement about the pitch was more akin to Andre Marriner or Jon Moss than Oliver or Taylor, but he's put in some solid, consistent performances in my view in the last few months.  Kavanagh on the other hand has been more variable.  The potential looks to be there and hopefully he will recover that high level of performance. 

Whether Pawson is now considered too old for promotion to elite status I'm not sure.
« Last Edit: Sun 27 Sep 2020 11:57 by Ref Fan »
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dave26

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I myself wasn’t convinced by Kavanagh either , he seems to have lost a bit of confidence he looked like a rabbit in headlights when he was surrounded by players pretty much like Pawson for the past couple of seasons, where as last season Kavanagh dealt with players surrounding him with confidence I think Tierney is ahead if both Pawson and Kavanagh since the restart
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bmb

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Opps - sorry, I have just realised that I have cited "common sense" - many apologies all  ;)

Please do not make a habit of citing common sense, the ivory towers will go into a complete meltdown!  ::) ;D
Hajrá Lilák. Csak a Kispest. Hajrá Magyarok! Hajrá játékvezetői csapat! Soha ne add fel. Nincs sárga kérem!!! No Chris Kavanagh doesn't live in Ashton or even in the Greater Manchester area!!
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Readingfan

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According to the VAR protocol, the review process can take place AFTER the final whistle.

Excellent intervention by Simon Hooper.

How long after? Could the players be in the shower and then made to come back?

IFAB doesn't say. Apparently they are more interested in accuracy than the time.

So common sense would suggest that the referee - even if he has blown the final whistle - tells the players to stay on the field of play while the VAR check takes place

Just as happens in cricket when the 10th wicket of an innings is reviewed - even if it is a wildly speculatively review because the team still has one to burn.

Opps - sorry, I have just realised that I have cited "common sense" - many apologies all  ;)

Yes - and that's why IFAB recommends exactly that! Indeed, they recommend delaying the final whistle (pausing play if time has otherwise elapsed) if a VAR check is still in progress - but obviously that requires the referee to know/suspect there's something for VAR to look at beforehand which Kavanagh didn't have time for yesterday.

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edy

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Especially after the earlier overturned penalty, (removed content)

On Kavanagh - I would be interested to hear Edy's (and everyone else's!!) opinion on UEFA pushing him as they now appear to be, I was a big fan of him last season and feel he has potential but imo his form has dipped and other than age, I can't see where he is stronger than Pawson.

It seems that Rosetti and co are looking for the new English Elite referee after Taylor/Oliver. The last 2 seasons they invested on Pawson but it seems that UEFA really takes notice of performances on the Leagues. So they think that Pawson had a worse season domestically than in UEFA and thus they preferred to swift their interest to Kavanagh. He was just promoted to 1st Group, handled the UYL final and is 6 years younger than Pawson. Also I believe that the Ivory towers are pushing Kavanagh.

Honestly, I can't see Kavanagh as a future Elite but obviously UEFA does (it wouldn't be the first time that UEFA gets it wrong).
I know that I know nothing
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REDSTRIPE

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Interesting listening to the comments after the game on BT Sport about Brighton's second penalty that was overturned after Kavanagh was advised to look at the monitor.  Peter Walton, not surprisingly, thought it was a correct decision eventually as not enough contact to justify a penalty.  Ex United defender, Ferdinand, disagreed and felt the original decision was justified.

To me it was one of those that depended on which angle you viewed it.  From one, the penalty decision looked reasonable.  From another, the Brighton player appeared more to go into Pogba. 

Sean Massey-Ellis will be disappointed if she missed the offside for one of the United disallowed goals and overall I didn't think it was a particularly good day for the officials, with the exception of Simon Hooper!
Peter Walton barely ever says anything....too scared of upsetting anyone
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DublinRef

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Especially after the earlier overturned penalty, (removed content)

On Kavanagh - I would be interested to hear Edy's (and everyone else's!!) opinion on UEFA pushing him as they now appear to be, I was a big fan of him last season and feel he has potential but imo his form has dipped and other than age, I can't see where he is stronger than Pawson.

It seems that Rosetti and co are looking for the new English Elite referee after Taylor/Oliver. The last 2 seasons they invested on Pawson but it seems that UEFA really takes notice of performances on the Leagues. So they think that Pawson had a worse season domestically than in UEFA and thus they preferred to swift their interest to Kavanagh. He was just promoted to 1st Group, handled the UYL final and is 6 years younger than Pawson. Also I believe that the Ivory towers are pushing Kavanagh.

Honestly, I can't see Kavanagh as a future Elite but obviously UEFA does (it wouldn't be the first time that UEFA gets it wrong).

Thanks very much Edy, that's an interesting point you make about UEFA taking note of domestic performance.

I like Pawson's laidback style but I don't feel he is an elite UEFA referee (as I've said before I think he will have a similar career trajectory to Marriner).

I must also say though that given his recent performances it is hard to see Kavanagh as an elite UEFA referee I would agree with you there - but as you say UEFA obviously see something!! And beyond Kavanagh I don't see who will be England's next elite referee. Who knows, perhaps he will have a quick improvement in the next season or two.