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Author Topic: C Kavanagh- Man Utd vs Fulham  (Read 5332 times)

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Irishref1985

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Re: C Kavanagh- Man Utd vs Fulham
« Reply #30 on: Sun 19 Mar 2023 19:18 »
I'm sorry if people are taking my comment out of context, but I was just giving my opinion on first viewing from Chris's positioning for the penalty, he should have spotted it. I accept that no referee should ever guess. This doesn't anyway condone the actions of the manager or Mitrovic.
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tef

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Re: C Kavanagh- Man Utd vs Fulham
« Reply #31 on: Sun 19 Mar 2023 19:20 »
On behalf of all of us refereeing at lower levels, thank you Chris Kavanagh. Completely justified red cards and such a strong statement not standing for any of that nonsense from
Mitrovic and the Fulham manager.
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Claretman

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Re: C Kavanagh- Man Utd vs Fulham
« Reply #32 on: Sun 19 Mar 2023 19:25 »
I'm sorry if people are taking my comment out of context, but I was just giving my opinion on first viewing from Chris's positioning for the penalty, he should have spotted it. I accept that no referee should ever guess. This doesn't anyway condone the actions of the manager or Mitrovic.
I really dont think he had a chance of seeing it or being sure from his position.
These incidents are what var was brought in for.
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Leggy

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Re: C Kavanagh- Man Utd vs Fulham
« Reply #33 on: Sun 19 Mar 2023 19:29 »
First point to make is that I am very pleased that CK dealt with the Fulham manager and captain according to Law.  I sincerely hope that the proverbial book is thrown at both and that long bans follow - along with a clear message that the same will follow for anyone else taking the came course of action.

My second point (and I suspect that this is going to be less well received) is that, like a couple of other correspondents on this forum, I believe that the correct decision should have been given in real time by CK.  And, whilst I have no way of proving it, had this happened the subsequent furore would not have happened.

To illustrate, imagine that this is an FA Cup tie from a few years ago and one of England's top referees has to use his skill, nous and experience to correctly make the big calls.  On seeing what transpired, he whistles, awards a penalty and quickly shows the red card to the offender.  There will be protests, but nothing of this magnitude.

Fast forward to today, I believe that CK has a good clear view of the incident but is not 100% certain (when is anyone 100% certain??).  He knows he has the VAR "safety net" so gives nothing.  He could have given the penalty / red card and he would still have had the same safety net, but I have long believed that VAR is emaciating our top referees and many are too timid to make the big calls, relying on VAR to do that for them.

None of the above is anything close to an excuse for the subsequent behaviour, but our top referees have got where they are today without VAR and VAR is changing the way they officiate, and not for the better.
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rustyref

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Re: C Kavanagh- Man Utd vs Fulham
« Reply #34 on: Sun 19 Mar 2023 19:49 »
First point to make is that I am very pleased that CK dealt with the Fulham manager and captain according to Law.  I sincerely hope that the proverbial book is thrown at both and that long bans follow - along with a clear message that the same will follow for anyone else taking the came course of action.

My second point (and I suspect that this is going to be less well received) is that, like a couple of other correspondents on this forum, I believe that the correct decision should have been given in real time by CK.  And, whilst I have no way of proving it, had this happened the subsequent furore would not have happened.

To illustrate, imagine that this is an FA Cup tie from a few years ago and one of England's top referees has to use his skill, nous and experience to correctly make the big calls.  On seeing what transpired, he whistles, awards a penalty and quickly shows the red card to the offender.  There will be protests, but nothing of this magnitude.

Fast forward to today, I believe that CK has a good clear view of the incident but is not 100% certain (when is anyone 100% certain??).  He knows he has the VAR "safety net" so gives nothing.  He could have given the penalty / red card and he would still have had the same safety net, but I have long believed that VAR is emaciating our top referees and many are too timid to make the big calls, relying on VAR to do that for them.

None of the above is anything close to an excuse for the subsequent behaviour, but our top referees have got where they are today without VAR and VAR is changing the way they officiate, and not for the better.

The reality doesn't back up that view though.  For all he had an excellent game, the fact that VAR corrected the penalty decision means he will be given a 7.9 for an incorrect key match decision.  No referee is going to willingly / knowingly not make a big call because they know they can reply on VAR, as they know a 7.9 will be forthcoming if they do.

It took me several replays to be sure it was intentional handling, and it was really the angle from behind the goal that made my mind up.  Chris Kavanagh got one view, from the worst possible angle, and was looking through much of Willian's torso, there is no way he could be 100% sure from the view he had.
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Referee99

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Re: C Kavanagh- Man Utd vs Fulham
« Reply #35 on: Sun 19 Mar 2023 19:54 »
A few years ago we would’ve been saying he got the decision wrong if he hadn’t given a penalty

We’ve now got people moaning that given the technology provided the correct decision was made

Life of a referee eh? Can never win
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TheThingFromLewes

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Re: C Kavanagh- Man Utd vs Fulham
« Reply #36 on: Sun 19 Mar 2023 20:04 »
I’ve never been as embarrassed to be a Fulham fan as I am this evening. And that is after being so proud of that performance for 75 minutes. But forget the performance, those antics from Silva and Mitrovic are utterly abhorrent. Silva has been at it all season and deserves a massive ban, and although I love Fulham with all my heart I genuinely hope we get the biggest fine possible.
Kavanagh was exceptional all game, a brilliant performance. And Chris, if you do happen to read this board, on behalf of all decent Fulham fans, and there’s plenty of us, I’d like to wholeheartedly apologise.
I genuinely feel broken right now by what I’ve just witnessed. Absolutely gutted. And I’m not talking about the result, some things are more important than that.

 I hope the main protagonists involved in this afternoon’s debacle publicly apologise to Kavanagh and the wider football community. 

I also hope the Fulham board take a dim view on proceedings and fine Silva and Mitrovic.

It also pains me to say that I’ve seen better behaviour from the likes of Steve Evans and Colin.
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Tweed

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Re: C Kavanagh- Man Utd vs Fulham
« Reply #37 on: Sun 19 Mar 2023 20:04 »
The main thing is that Kavanagh got to the correct decision and he did.

I've got to say, when he was summoned to the monitor I thought it was a shame that Fulham were going to concede a penalty and red card for that incident as although Willian's hand was out, I think he did try and bring it in to stop the handball happening and it felt that the sanction was going to be disproportionate to the offence.  And to be clear that gripe is at the law and not Chris Kavanagh or his team.

I've got to say, I really like the Fulham manager, from the limited amount of Fulham (and his previous clubs) I've seen, he's normally got a good way about him but he just snapped there and the red mist descended, there is no excuse.  And Mitrovic has always had a short fuse and it just went for him there.  Kavanagh did everything right to uphold the laws of the game and send a message to everyone about acceptable conduct on the field.

If I was a Fulham fan I think I'd have fallen out of love with football tonight, what a gut wrenching way to lose a game of football.
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bmb

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Re: C Kavanagh- Man Utd vs Fulham
« Reply #38 on: Sun 19 Mar 2023 20:15 »
I've got to say, I really like the Fulham manager, from the limited amount of Fulham (and his previous clubs) I've seen, he's normally got a good way about him but he just snapped there and the red mist descended, there is no excuse. 

Have to disagree with you on this part - he moans about the ref virtually every week. He's confrontational with the 4O way too often. Decent coach and I like the style of football his teams play but he jumps on the blame the ref bandwagon far too often, imo.
Hajrá Lilák. Csak a Kispest. Hajrá Magyarok! Hajrá játékvezetői csapat! Soha ne add fel. Nincs sárga kérem!!! No Chris Kavanagh doesn't live in Ashton or even in the Greater Manchester area!!
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cwh

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Re: C Kavanagh- Man Utd vs Fulham
« Reply #39 on: Sun 19 Mar 2023 20:37 »
I wonder how all this will affect CK  - is he the sort of person to be able to put it behind him and get on with his next appointment. We hear so much these days about mental health - is there any help available to support referees who may need it?
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Jackinthebox

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Re: C Kavanagh- Man Utd vs Fulham
« Reply #40 on: Sun 19 Mar 2023 20:53 »
The thing which bemused me is why were the Fulham players/bench so angry? It's a clear Penalty  and Red Card don't see why Mitrovic was so up in arms about it.
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bmb

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Re: C Kavanagh- Man Utd vs Fulham
« Reply #41 on: Sun 19 Mar 2023 20:57 »
I wonder how all this will affect CK  - is he the sort of person to be able to put it behind him and get on with his next appointment. We hear so much these days about mental health - is there any help available to support referees who may need it?

He is absolutely fine. He has someone available for any MH fall out from it who he will talk to if he needs it. He also has an amazing supportive family.

In more general terms the help available is variable. I work in referee MH, not in the UK, there are some schemes in place with some Federations and a lot of the top refs have their own personal MH mentor/support person. There is nowhere near enough support though imo and it's something that needs to be taken more seriously overall.
Hajrá Lilák. Csak a Kispest. Hajrá Magyarok! Hajrá játékvezetői csapat! Soha ne add fel. Nincs sárga kérem!!! No Chris Kavanagh doesn't live in Ashton or even in the Greater Manchester area!!
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Claretman

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Re: C Kavanagh- Man Utd vs Fulham
« Reply #42 on: Sun 19 Mar 2023 21:00 »
I wonder how all this will affect CK  - is he the sort of person to be able to put it behind him and get on with his next appointment. We hear so much these days about mental health - is there any help available to support referees who may need it?
You make an extremely good point cwh, firstly i think that he coped very well after the fiasco surrounding the penalty decision, however it could have been adrenalin that got him through.
There will be help for him through the pgmol and others should he need it. I am sure he will be well looked after, he will have confidantes to talk things through with, which from experience (albeit at a more junior level) will be extremely valuable and helpful in days to come.
Chris we are all with you.
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bmb

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Re: C Kavanagh- Man Utd vs Fulham
« Reply #43 on: Sun 19 Mar 2023 21:01 »
The thing which bemused me is why were the Fulham players/bench so angry? It's a clear Penalty  and Red Card don't see why Mitrovic was so up in arms about it.

Possibly frustration overload. Realising they were potentially throwing the game away, which of course they did. It was an appalling, disgraceful over reaction to their own caused issue and took it out on the ref - the easy target. No excuse for so called professionals to act in that way though.

It's such a shame in terms of how well they were doing up until that point. They were winning, clearly the better team and threw it away with a complete loss of discipline.
Hajrá Lilák. Csak a Kispest. Hajrá Magyarok! Hajrá játékvezetői csapat! Soha ne add fel. Nincs sárga kérem!!! No Chris Kavanagh doesn't live in Ashton or even in the Greater Manchester area!!
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Tweed

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Re: C Kavanagh- Man Utd vs Fulham
« Reply #44 on: Sun 19 Mar 2023 21:10 »
I've got to say, I really like the Fulham manager, from the limited amount of Fulham (and his previous clubs) I've seen, he's normally got a good way about him but he just snapped there and the red mist descended, there is no excuse. 

Have to disagree with you on this part - he moans about the ref virtually every week. He's confrontational with the 4O way too often. Decent coach and I like the style of football his teams play but he jumps on the blame the ref bandwagon far too often, imo.

Fair enough, you'll see a lot more of him than I do!
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