+-

+-User

Welcome, Guest.
Please login or register.
 
 
 

Login with your social network

Forgot your password?

+-Stats ezBlock

Members
Total Members: 953
Latest: Yorksref
New This Month: 21
New This Week: 3
New Today: 1
Stats
Total Posts: 75094
Total Topics: 5525
Most Online Today: 148
Most Online Ever: 17046
(Mon 29 Mar 2021 19:08)
Users Online
Members: 6
Guests: 105
Total: 111

Author Topic: Black linesman from 1980  (Read 1274 times)

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

JohnCoyle

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 276
    • View Profile
Black linesman from 1980
« on: Sat 19 Nov 2022 11:44 »
I was watching an episode of The Big Match Revisited the other day.  April 1980, Chelsea vs. Notts County in Division 2. The referee was Bill Bombroff. One of the linesmen was a black man whose name I don't know. I wondered if he was the first BAME official to be appointed to the Football League.

I don't think he made it to the Football League middle. If he had I think I would know who he was.

Any ideas?

Share on Facebook Share on Twitter


guest42

  • Guest
Re: Black linesman from 1980
« Reply #1 on: Sat 19 Nov 2022 20:25 »
If they were appointing all three on the same rough geographical area - it’d be an official from the Bristol area.

I note a copy of said programme is listed on eBay. I’ve contacted the seller to ask if they could send me a photo of the team lineups page. If that comes through - I’ll post up details.

nemesis

  • RTR Veterans
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1,277
    • View Profile
Re: Black linesman from 1980
« Reply #2 on: Sat 19 Nov 2022 21:43 »
In 1982 Orient's Tommy Taylor was involved in a controversial incident stemming from racially abusing a linesman during a 5th round FA Cup replay against Crystal Palace.

The programme lists the Linesmen as P.K. Helsby and R.J. Clements, if that's any help. The latter lined in the 1984 League Cup Final. The former was a reserve official for England v Hungary at Wembley.
« Last Edit: Sat 19 Nov 2022 21:52 by nemesis »

keith h

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 94
    • View Profile
Re: Black linesman from 1980
« Reply #3 on: Sun 20 Nov 2022 08:33 »
P K Helsby was listed as being from Aylesbury so geographically it makes it a good possibility as certainly back then most assistants from that area would have spent much of their time at London grounds

Seagull

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 500
  • Gender: Male
  • Location: Maidstone
    • View Profile
  • Referee Level: Retired 1998 (old Class 2)
Re: Black linesman from 1980
« Reply #4 on: Sun 20 Nov 2022 11:57 »
In 1982 Orient's Tommy Taylor was involved in a controversial incident stemming from racially abusing a linesman during a 5th round FA Cup replay against Crystal Palace.

The programme lists the Linesmen as P.K. Helsby and R.J. Clements, if that's any help. The latter lined in the 1984 League Cup Final. The former was a reserve official for England v Hungary at Wembley.

R.J. "Dick" Clements was from Tonbridge, Kent. I officiated with him a few times. The incident you mention must have involved Mr. Helsby.

John Treleven

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,705
    • View Profile
Re: Black linesman from 1980
« Reply #5 on: Sun 20 Nov 2022 17:16 »
Peter K. Helsby

born c 1946

married 1974 Carmarthen

F.L. line 76-77 to 88-89

Southsea (Portsmouth)/Aylesbury/Copnor (Portsmouth) - still there in 2013

4th for ENG v HUN 27.04.1983

He is possibly the same Peter Helsby who is the match secretary at Bognor Regis Town (21 miles away) - he is the right age but is not black
« Last Edit: Sun 20 Nov 2022 17:57 by John Treleven »

nemesis

  • RTR Veterans
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1,277
    • View Profile
Re: Black linesman from 1980
« Reply #6 on: Sun 20 Nov 2022 18:23 »
In 1982 Orient's Tommy Taylor was involved in a controversial incident stemming from racially abusing a linesman during a 5th round FA Cup replay against Crystal Palace.

The programme lists the Linesmen as P.K. Helsby and R.J. Clements, if that's any help. The latter lined in the 1984 League Cup Final. The former was a reserve official for England v Hungary at Wembley.

R.J. "Dick" Clements was from Tonbridge, Kent. I officiated with him a few times. The incident you mention must have involved Mr. Helsby.

       .... or, of course, the officials may not have been as per the programme.
Like Like x 1 View List

John Treleven

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,705
    • View Profile
Re: Black linesman from 1980
« Reply #7 on: Mon 21 Nov 2022 07:36 »
Have we discovered who the 1980 Chelsea v Notts County lines were yet?

Seagull

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 500
  • Gender: Male
  • Location: Maidstone
    • View Profile
  • Referee Level: Retired 1998 (old Class 2)
Re: Black linesman from 1980
« Reply #8 on: Mon 21 Nov 2022 11:42 »
In 1982 Orient's Tommy Taylor was involved in a controversial incident stemming from racially abusing a linesman during a 5th round FA Cup replay against Crystal Palace.

The programme lists the Linesmen as P.K. Helsby and R.J. Clements, if that's any help. The latter lined in the 1984 League Cup Final. The former was a reserve official for England v Hungary at Wembley.

R.J. "Dick" Clements was from Tonbridge, Kent. I officiated with him a few times. The incident you mention must have involved Mr. Helsby.

       .... or, of course, the officials may not have been as per the programme.

Yes, indeed.

ex-ref

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 40
    • View Profile
Re: Black linesman from 1980
« Reply #9 on: Mon 21 Nov 2022 22:07 »
If memory serves me right, Pete Helsby was in the Forces. Possibly Navy as he was based in Portsmouth.

guest42

  • Guest
Re: Black linesman from 1980
« Reply #10 on: Tue 22 Nov 2022 11:52 »
I’ve had an answer back from the seller of the programme on eBay:

Linesmen: E D Griffin (London N9) & A G Lisney (Tonbridge, Kent)
Like Like x 2 View List

John Treleven

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,705
    • View Profile
Re: Black linesman from 1980
« Reply #11 on: Tue 22 Nov 2022 12:31 »
Alan G Lisney (Tonbridge) born 1942, living in Deal, Kent with his wife Kay M (nee Whitefield) in 2013
« Last Edit: Tue 22 Nov 2022 12:53 by John Treleven »

JohnCoyle

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 276
    • View Profile
Re: Black linesman from 1980
« Reply #12 on: Tue 22 Nov 2022 12:37 »
I’ve had an answer back from the seller of the programme on eBay:

Linesmen: E D Griffin (London N9) & A G Lisney (Tonbridge, Kent)

The official in question had the red flag, so Mr. Griffin may well be our man. I have to say I am not familiar with him, but he may have been the first black man to officiate on the Football League.

John Treleven

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,705
    • View Profile
Re: Black linesman from 1980
« Reply #13 on: Tue 22 Nov 2022 13:03 »
Checking with the F.L. handbooks Griffin is a typo for Griffith

Emerson De Courcey Griffith arrived from Barbados in 1961, married here in 1962 & again in 1981, died in Enfield 2018
Informative Informative x 2 View List

John Treleven

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,705
    • View Profile
Re: Black linesman from 1980
« Reply #14 on: Tue 22 Nov 2022 13:57 »
A fascinating, yet sad, postscript to his life

Andy Griffith (twitter June 2020)

My Dad and how racism affected his life

My (step) dad died last year. His name was Emerson Griffith. He was from Barbados and came to England in 1961
Emerson first came into my life aged 10 when he started to go out with my mum.
From initially being ‘Uncle Em’ my brother and I asked him after a few years if we could call him Dad.

A little about his life. 
He was one of nine kids.
He left the West Indes and came to Britain (in 1961).
He started as a welder at British Oxygen.
Like many other black workers he faced daily discrimination with the National Front symbol scratched on his locker.
He went on to work as a driver for the GPO

His main hobby was football which I shared with him.
He was a football referee/linesman.
Luckily I was the same shoe size and I used to get his old boots.
I’d play for my school in the morning then rush back to go with him to a match.

It’s an interesting perspective being a white son of a black father.
Sitting in the stands I had to hear various racial slurs against him.
Black this, black that. Interestingly some of these people were very pally with him after the game.

Emerson became the first black official in the football league in the 1980s.
He was a linesman who incurred lots of abuse both verbal and physical. He was often spat upon.
I’m biased of course but I think the reason the F.L. did not promote him to referee was down to racism.
He was an excellent referee at Isthmian League level - a good semi pro standard.
Like many black footballers at the time such as the late, great Cyril Regis, who dad officiated a few times,
Howard Gayle, Laurie Cunningham and many others he faced all the abuse with much dignity and stoicism.

Sadly last year Emerson died. He died a bitter man with severe mental health problems.
It was one of the worst days of my life when I had to get him sectioned under the mental health act.
His pain was large. He had faced lots of hate.
He faced so much unfairness and hate. He loved a glass of rum and a good joke.
The last years of his life ended especially badly but they were good times too.
To all of those who helped him in the GPO and in his officiating I thank you. Many kind words kept him going.

Reply from Michael James (Horsham)

I was a referee on the F.L. when he ran the line to me.
We had a good time together joking about various subjects including his colour.
He always said he could tell the people who meant comments and ones that were joking.
Just remember how happy he was when running line on FL and how proud he was to be first black official.
My wife and I often talk with affection about him and your mum who we met at various conferences.
« Last Edit: Tue 22 Nov 2022 18:38 by John Treleven »
Like Like x 1 Sad Sad x 3 View List