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Author Topic: Being Able to Hear the Officials During The Game  (Read 1823 times)

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Readingfan

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I think an issue on this could potentially be similar to that relating to post match interviews with officials
The ability and I believe desire to find a camera angle to appear to prove the official wrong and "big up" their story and ability to find 'errors' both of which they will hope increase their figures

I think that's paranoia to some extent - the officials make the decisions already and I believe the media already get quite good access to the reasoning behind it. I don't see how including an audible explanation is going to cause any detrimental harm (unless the explanation/reasoning is a particularly poor one in which case they're likely to have made a bad decision and some criticism is probably warranted, as sometimes happens in rugby.) It would save some of the presumption or 'lost in translation' explanations we sometimes get nowadays.

I do agree the media are often misinformed but it seems to me the PGMO etc. are terrified of doing anything proactive about it. I heard Mike Riley and Adam Watts had a Zoom meeting with broadcasters before the start of the season and some of it clearly hasn't been fully conveyed but why try and do it through to the broadcasters? Have a public briefing. Set up your own website. Start your own podcast. There are more ways than ever before to directly get your message across and provide clear, precise explanations. Instead we get pundits making laws up, getting their wires crossed and Dermot Gallagher sitting on the fence!




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Readingfan

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It was said by the BT commentator at the weekend that they could hear the VAR's comments to the referee, although not the referee's replies back.

Personally I think it's poor that the media can hear but supporters/viewers can't.

Presumably the 'bad language' argument doesn't even apply there - unless Simon Hooper and co. are dropping the F word regularly at Stockley Park which I doubt!
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anje-roo

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With the continuing absence of usual crowd numbers from most matches, it seems "logical" that changes should be tested & implemented. Even if nothing can be ever made perfect (goalpost technology as Michael Oliver found out), increasing clarity around on-field officials' decisions and decision-making with/without VAR should be high on any sport's agenda. I doubt, for instance, that FIFA/UEFA would implement anything at flagship tournaments or competitions without adequate testing but surely it would be good for the game if supporters/spectators weren't left to guess about decisions. I think it was world rugby (IRB as was) which drove the changes in professional rugby union officiating with active help from several, if not all, of the major rugby unions. Something similar in UEFA wouldn't be impossible assuming Collina/Elleray/Rosetti have good dialogue with the likes of Riley & Rizzoli and their counterparts in, for instance, France Spain & Germany. There are some high-profile matches coming up in the rugby union & rugby league calendars, where professional officials' in-game decisions and decision-making processes will be inclusive. If PGMOL and SG1 referees and ARs were against changes in this area, it would be informative to know exactly why.     
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Readingfan

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If we assume conversations will be heard in some way at some point (which I think is inevitable), then I absolutely agree now is a sensible time to start with that.

There might be a few hiccups along the way so it makes sense to do that in empty stadiums rather than ones at full capacity and the reaction that might come.

I think targeting access to audio feeds by the 2022 World Cup would be a sensible objective. It will have been six years by then (believe it or not!) since VAR was first used at 2016 Club World Cup.

Out of interest, how long did it take for officials to be mic'd up in other sports that introduced video technology? Was it done immediately or was it done in stages? (Indeed, did it happen before vidoe technology in some sports?)




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QuoCob

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Interesting that SKY were allowed to broadcast the exchange between Slavin Bilic and Mike Dean (at half time) immediately after the match, or did they just do it without asking permission?
“They shall grow not old as we that are left grow old:
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Readingfan

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Interesting that SKY were allowed to broadcast the exchange between Slavin Bilic and Mike Dean (at half time) immediately after the match, or did they just do it without asking permission?

BT broadcast it at half-time.

If they pick it up at the time, I doubt they have to ask permission (like Sky played the audio of Schmeichel shouting instructions to his defence before Man City's first goal on Sunday) or that infamous conversation between Jon Moss and Eddie Smart in the Liverpool V Spurs game a few years ago.

QuoCob

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Interesting that SKY were allowed to broadcast the exchange between Slavin Bilic and Mike Dean (at half time) immediately after the match, or did they just do it without asking permission?

BT broadcast it at half-time.

If they pick it up at the time, I doubt they have to ask permission (like Sky played the audio of Schmeichel shouting instructions to his defence before Man City's first goal on Sunday) or that infamous conversation between Jon Moss and Eddie Smart in the Liverpool V Spurs game a few years ago.


The Schmeichel piece wasn't contentious, I don't recall the Moss/Smart one?
“They shall grow not old as we that are left grow old:
Age shall not weary them, nor the years condemn.
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Readingfan

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Interesting that SKY were allowed to broadcast the exchange between Slavin Bilic and Mike Dean (at half time) immediately after the match, or did they just do it without asking permission?

BT broadcast it at half-time.

If they pick it up at the time, I doubt they have to ask permission (like Sky played the audio of Schmeichel shouting instructions to his defence before Man City's first goal on Sunday) or that infamous conversation between Jon Moss and Eddie Smart in the Liverpool V Spurs game a few years ago.


The Schmeichel piece wasn't contentious, I don't recall the Moss/Smart one?

No, but I don't think it makes a difference if it's picked up at the time and they therefore have access to it. Another example would be the Mike Dean/Conor Coady conversation after the Wolves disallowed goal against Leicester last season - 'you're in charge and even you don't know who was offside'.

The Moss/Smart one was when they didn't know if Lovren had played the ball which would have meant Kane was onside for the Spurs penalty against Liverpool and Moss asked FO Atkinson 'Anything from TV Martin?'


Ref Fan

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It was said by the BT commentator at the weekend that they could hear the VAR's comments to the referee, although not the referee's replies back.

Personally I think it's poor that the media can hear but supporters/viewers can't.

Presumably the 'bad language' argument doesn't even apply there - unless Simon Hooper and co. are dropping the F word regularly at Stockley Park which I doubt!

The fact TV commentators could hear VAR but not the referee in itself might tell only half the story.  In a potential RC situation such as the Mane elbow on Monday evening for example, can the referee get in first as it were telling VAR he had a good view and thinks it's only Yellow because .... etc. Or does he have to wait and see whether VAR comments or asks the referee what he saw?  If the former can happen, is that likely to diffuse the potential for the VAR to advise the ref. to look at the monitor. Perhaps I've not expressed that very well but I guess it's a question of where the initiative lies when an obvious contentious incident occurs.  Of course, if a referee has missed something completely, then it's up to VAR whether it warrants an intervention.

RCG

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Certainly works both ways in rugby in that a referee will ask TMO to look at something but also TMO will pick up on things not seen immediately. Rugby has also established that it is a referee led discussion and its his/her final decision. Plus they are prepared to listen and then discard any intervention. Use of TMO does not always result in a change of decision (as VAR seems to atm)
It is a tool in the referees armoury not a blunt object to try and get 100% accuracy or consistency
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Stickwhistler

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Can I ask a question that has been bugging me for some time. In what language does the VAR communicate with the Match Referee during international and european club matches -their native language or is there a set language in which all communications take place whatever the nationality of the officials?

RCG

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One would assume if all officials are from same country then native tongue. Otherwise English, which adds its own level of nuance.

Readingfan

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One would assume if all officials are from same country then native tongue. Otherwise English, which adds its own level of nuance.

Yes, I think this is right.

There was some audio released of Kuipers refereeing a Man Utd Champions League game in 2014 and the officials were speaking Dutch (obviously pre-VAR) and then FIFA released some audio clips of VAR conversations at the 2018 World Cup. The conversations were generally in English but I think the examples were from officials from different nationalities. There was one clip where everyone involved in the VAR booth was from the same country (Italy I think) so they spoke their native language to make it more efficient.

Presumably if viewers were able to hear the audio too then a default language would likely be set, as happens in rugby? Of course all FIFA referees are required to pass an English test.

bmb

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One would assume if all officials are from same country then native tongue. Otherwise English, which adds its own level of nuance.

Viktor told me that he would always communicate with his team in Hungarian (AARs then not VAR) but if they had a 4th official who was not Hungarian then they would speak in English or he would repeat in English for the 4O benefit. The level of English for AR's tends to be lower than for the referee, their language test is easier & AARs who are non FIFA referees may well have an even lower level of English so they use their own language wherever possible as communication is more accurate.

I remember watching some communication in a game with Bognár as referee and he was speaking in Hungarian to his AAR. The only word I understood was "tizenegy"!
« Last Edit: Sun 04 Oct 2020 16:24 by bmb »
Hajrá Lilák. Csak a Kispest. Hajrá Magyarok! Hajrá játékvezetői csapat! Soha ne add fel. Nincs sárga kérem!!! No Chris Kavanagh doesn't live in Ashton or even in the Greater Manchester area!!

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