Author Topic: BAME referees  (Read 2149 times)

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Left Field

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Re: BAME referees
« Reply #15 on: Tue 16 Jun 2020 18:52 »
institutionalised racism often takes subtle forms and we can't rule out its existence within refereeing. There may not be overt discrimination or hostility but BAME referees may find that they are not welcomed into the same networks as white officials. Often links of these kinds are very important in influencing promotion and retention. This is unlikely to be any formal type of "rejection" but more that the networks within refereeing are more likely to reach out to white referees. It's also possible that when decisions on promotion are made decision-makers have unconscious stereotypes of who "fits the bill" and white referees fit more within that stereotype. The existence of such stereotypes though is hard to prove an decision-makers may be quite unaware of them. Stereotypes of this kind may also work against female and gay referees and others as well.
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bmb

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Re: BAME referees
« Reply #16 on: Tue 16 Jun 2020 20:00 »
You have a very good point Left Field. I read a very interesting thread on Twitter from a guy working in IT. He'd been taken on by a company a few years ago to help grow it and had done a huge presentation on his suggestions, following which the owner of the company took him into the office and asked what the one thing he had missed was. He said he could see nothing wrong & finally the owner told him that there was not a single BAME employee at the company. The guy said how embarrassed he was to have not even noticed and at that point realised how easy it is to just accept the status quo and whilst you can react to an overt display of racism & say not acceptable you can also not see beyond the surface when there is nothing overt alerting you. Was a very good thread actually and similar to the point you have just made.
« Last Edit: Tue 16 Jun 2020 20:02 by bmb »
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Left Field

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Re: BAME referees
« Reply #17 on: Tue 16 Jun 2020 21:17 »
Allied to your point bmb there is a strong tendency in almost all jobs and activities for the workforce or membership to in effect reproduce itself. Employers or recruiters tend to engage and promote people much like themselves and their existing membership; the same is likely to be true in refereeing so it is hard for the membership of referees to change much in terms of class, ethnicity, gender and sexuality. Overt exclusion need not occur for this to happen but it is easier for individuals to get on if they are similar to existing members. There may also be expectations in terms of personality and "clubability" so those referees who socialise with each other, attend official events and are popular with their peers and their hierarchy may be more likely to make progress than those who prefer either to "keep themselves to themselves" or even take a more individualistic line. Conformity is strongly favoured in most walks of life and those who do not conform - even if they are very talented - find their progress limited.

Individuals who belong to any kind of minority within an activity can lead a lonely life, even if no-one actively creates difficulties for them. You don't have to be rejected to feel that you aren't embraced and are not fully valued. This becomes self-perpetuating but it can be broken down. Fifty years ago there were very few BAME players but that has completely transformed; however there are still very few BAME managers and coaches and even fewer who are in positions of authority on decision-making bodies in the game. Aside from playing, BAME individuals remain very unrepresented in many areas of the game including refereeing. If more do reach these positions many more follow but the greatest need is to create that genuinely inclusive background and for recruiters to be more active in diversifying their membership / workforce.
« Last Edit: Wed 17 Jun 2020 10:49 by Left Field »
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bmb

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Re: BAME referees
« Reply #18 on: Tue 16 Jun 2020 21:51 »
Hajrá Lilák. Csak a Kispest. Hajrá Magyarok! Hajrá játékvezetői csapat! Soha ne add fel

flipmode

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Re: BAME referees
« Reply #19 on: Wed 17 Jun 2020 05:53 »
I remember a conversation with a friend of mine who confided that he was convinced he'd moved higher up the refereeing pyramid than he thought he should, and that he thought his surname might have helped him along the way.
David Silva olé.
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nemesis

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Re: BAME referees
« Reply #20 on: Thu 18 Jun 2020 08:57 »
I think this was the only other high profile case involving the FA

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2001/dec/06/newsstory.sport4

I remember that! I would hope things have moved on in the 15 years since but who knows!

I'm sorry but the suggestion that Gurnam Singh would have been anywhere near, let alone at, the top of a Referees' Performance List is stretching my incredulity just a bit too far.
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LateTackle

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Re: BAME referees
« Reply #21 on: Thu 18 Jun 2020 17:18 »
Apologies for linking to the s*n but there is an article in there on Bhups and Sunny Gill

https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/football/11865588/bame-referees-sunny-bhups-gill-jarnail-singh/
Good to see more BAME referees coming through the system.  I know that when I was refereeing many years ago there was not a single one in my RA or anywhere near it.  There were a couple of Italian referees at that time and they used to get enough stick on the field so it was hardly surprising.

Good luck to the Gill brothers, although having seen their father referee a few times over the years I trust he will not be their role model. ;)

bmb

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Re: BAME referees
« Reply #22 on: Tue 23 Jun 2020 16:02 »
There's a reason there are no openly gay referees (and players) in the top flight - homophobic abuse. I mean this no way disrespectfully & I know no-one would take it as such but it is a lot easier to hide being gay than it is to hide skin colour so a gay referee or player can 'bypass' the abuse by remaining in the closet. That is so wrong. Not that they can make it but that they have to hide it away. Ryan T Atkin was incredibly brave to come out, but he shouldn't have had to be brave to do so. It shouldn't even be an issue in 2020 yet here it is still an issue. How depressing is that?


In the words of an ex professional football who has just come out as being gay

"Being gay and having a career in football never felt like an option. Society told me my masculinity was linked to my sexuality -- something we of course know is a false assumption -- but I felt as if I couldn't be a footballer and accept who I was. Everything around me suggested these two worlds were pure enemies, and I had to sacrifice one in order to survive. It doesn't feel that way in other industries. In music, we love Freddie Mercury and Elton John. It's accepted in film. Tim Cook, the CEO of Apple, is gay, and these things are all OK.

But in football, there's still fear a gay teammate might disrupt the team environment. Sometimes it's brushed away, like homophobia isn't an issue in football anymore. Obviously that's not true if there are so few examples young kids can look to as role models.

I have heard gay slurs fly around in changing rooms and on the pitch. I mean, one of the worst things you can say to someone in a sporting environment is: "You're so gay." These words and these phrases are ingrained in parts of society."

https://www.espn.com/soccer/blog-espn-fc-united/story/4116107/my-hidden-journey-a-professional-soccer-player-reveals-he-is-gay?platform=amp
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Ashington46

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Re: BAME referees
« Reply #23 on: Tue 23 Jun 2020 16:54 »
Interesting read and it is very sad that he has had to virtually hide his true feeling for such a long time just so that he could do the job he wanted.
This is still a very grey area in the football world and also in quite a number of sports.

There is no easy answer because there will always be those people around who will be homophobic, just as there will always be those around who are racist. It is certainly easier for many people to be themselves than it is for those like Thomas Beattie.
Referee's decision used to be final!
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SuffolkRef

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Re: BAME referees
« Reply #24 on: Sat 18 Jul 2020 16:33 »
For those that didn’t see it, Jarnail Singh and his sons were also the subject of a BBC article a couple of days ago.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/sport/amp/football/53347268
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bmb

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Re: BAME referees
« Reply #25 on: Fri 31 Jul 2020 22:11 »
Hajrá Lilák. Csak a Kispest. Hajrá Magyarok! Hajrá játékvezetői csapat! Soha ne add fel
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Mackem ref

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Re: BAME referees
« Reply #26 on: Sat 01 Aug 2020 09:48 »
It’s certainly about time we had a FL ref from a BAME background - you can’t tell me the top 70 or so refs in this country are all white!

However, I’ll wait until this is confirmed by the EFL before congratulating Sam. The press recently said Jarred Gillett would get a PL game towards the end of the season and they were wrong about that.
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Whistleblower

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Re: BAME referees
« Reply #27 on: Sat 01 Aug 2020 13:49 »
Did Trevor Parkes leave the List before Uriah Rennie? I thought it might have been the other way round and Upton doesn't list as late as that. Parkes, like Allison,
was a Firefighter. Parkes also had the most tremendous sense of fun.

I have seen Allison referee once and he gave a calm, focussed and very creditable performance.

TVOS

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Re: BAME referees
« Reply #28 on: Sat 01 Aug 2020 14:00 »
Did Trevor Parkes leave the List before Uriah Rennie? I thought it might have been the other way round and Upton doesn't list as late as that. Parkes, like Allison,
was a Firefighter. Parkes also had the most tremendous sense of fun.

I have seen Allison referee once and he gave a calm, focussed and very creditable performance.

Trevor Parkes was one of the best FL refs I saw at his numerous Rochdale games. Surprised he never went higher.

JCFC

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Re: BAME referees
« Reply #29 on: Sat 01 Aug 2020 14:41 »

I have seen Allison referee once and he gave a calm, focussed and very creditable performance.

From February 2017:

"Mr Allison's distinctive feature is what Michel Quoist in one of his more eccentric prayers described as "a fine dome," though it does not quite match Uriah Rennie's for the brilliance of its sheen. That apart, he went about his business in an unspectacular manner. Indeed, if we except the good movement, his alertness to both possible flashpoints and timewasting tactics, his excellent use of words in the ear on the hoof, his appropriate use of cards, his generally sound decision-making (hoppers' views discounted) and the way he appeared comfortable throughout in his control, then there is nothing special to enthuse over. It would be a very harsh observer, however, who was not happy with that particular list of accomplishments.

At this stage of the competition last year, Mr Allison was assistant at Hereford to a first-season 2A who was the only one of the four Q-F referees to be promoted to Level 1. Now 2A himself, he might tempt one to wonder whether history might repeat itself. It is not beyond the bounds of possibility on this showing."


I would be more than happy to see him promoted, though as Mackem says, it is still paper talk. There are however many referees among the 2A brigade whom I have seen put in excellent performances, so competition is very tight.
« Last Edit: Sat 01 Aug 2020 14:44 by JCFC »
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