RateTheRef

Cannot talk about all BAME referees in the UK, but there a couple in the manchester area who are on their way up!

I once knew a referee who was originally from Pakistan but grew up here. He had been a referee for over 40 years. He said to me once that he still got terrible racism at some games.
I also know a black guy. I hadn’t seen him for about 4 years and he said he left the game due to the terrible racism he was getting at matches - and only now had the confidence to make a comeback!

From personal experience my son gave up refereeing due to horrendous racial abuse. Not from anyone within the game itself, he had tremendous support from Andre Marriner, Mark Clattenburg, Lucy Oliver, Viktor Kassai, György Ring & Gábor Erős in particular but also from Chris Wild at UEFA and dare I say it Lord Elleray! The National list referees he met over the years all spent time talking to him, advising him, discussing decisions with him, answering all his questions and guiding him. Many left games late due to sitting with him afterwards and giving him all the time he wanted and needed. The abuse came from the crowd at 2 different games, the coaches from the teams in the games stepped in with parents of the children playing to let those responsible know their behaviour was completely unacceptable and I have a lot of respect for them for their support as well but those few idiots in the crowd completely shattered my little boy's confidence. Not just with refereeing either, with life in general, it affected his schooling in a very detrimental way. Troy Townsend did a lot of work with him on a 1:1 basis and Andre, Mark & Viktor were very active in their support, it took a year before that boy even smiled again. He won't even go to a football match anymore, let alone referee a game. The thing that always struck me with the situation with my lad was when he sat there crying his eyes out and said "Mum if they said I was a s**t referee I'd not mind that, I make mistakes, I'm learning, it's ok to make mistakes and it's ok for them to disagree with my decisions but why hate me for my skin colour, I don't understand, I can't understand why it makes a difference".  Who knows whether he would have gone on & been a FIFA referee or not, certainly several at high levels of the game were tracking him because they saw a real talent in him especially actually as an AR, he may well never have got above Sunday league level but we will never know because some idiots took it away from him over his skin colour.

His is not an isolated case. I suspect, but don't know for fact, there are many youngsters from the BAME communities who simply don't take up the whistle or remain with it for similar reasons. I think you tend to hear more incidents within those communities than if you are not living within them yourselves. I know it's not the only form of abuse & there are other young refs out there getting abuse for their bright ginger hair, for having a bit of puppy fat on them, for being too skinny, knock kneed or whatever else people can find to make fun of & bully them for. Add in any disability, homophobia and sexism for the full sweep, all just as appalling to me. There's a reason there are no openly gay referees (and players) in the top flight - homophobic abuse. I mean this no way disrespectfully & I know no-one would take it as such but it is a lot easier to hide being gay than it is to hide skin colour so a gay referee or player can 'bypass' the abuse by remaining in the closet. That is so wrong. Not that they can make it but that they have to hide it away. Ryan T Atkin was incredibly brave to come out, but he shouldn't have had to be brave to do so. It shouldn't even be an issue in 2020 yet here it is still an issue. How depressing is that?

Racism in football has come a long way but there is still a long way to go. Ian Wright was subjected to some horrendous racist abuse just a couple of weeks ago. Raheem Sterling is a very high profile target of racial abuse on a regular basis, as are other top non white players, he is not alone.  All the time there are people willing to abuse the top players, and those around who do not stop them, you can imagine the levels of abuse that will come the way of the least popular person on the pitch. I imagine it could put many off wanting to reach those levels of the game!

I don't know if there is institutional racism within the FA itself, I would hope not. I know of 1 referee who says he would have made the FIFA list if only he was white, well I've seen him referee, several times & him not making the FIFA list is nothing to do with the colour of his skin but more to do with his lack of ability as a referee! That sort of thing is also a problem, those who will wrongly play the race card because they won't accept it's a lack of talent or ability on their own part and nothing to do with race. They set diversity back as much as the racists do.

bmb ----a very interesting and very sad read in relation to your son, I sincerely hope that he is feeling confident again and able to get on with his life.

He is getting on with his life now yes, thank you for checking. One day he had boys talk with both Mark & Andre, I don't know what was said, I'm a girl so it was none of my business and the 3 of them completely excluded me from their talk but the following week he went into school and came home all excited telling me that he had been made an anti bullying coordinator. Whatever they said to him finally hit home with him & he realised he could make a difference to other kids lives as well as his own. He really threw himself into it, making safe zones for bullied kids within the school, being available as a mentor to them, getting other kids involved in anti bullying programs, with I hasten to add some fantastic support from his head teacher & the other teachers at his school. He started to tutor younger kids in both Spanish and French, his strongest subjects and grew into a very strong, inspirational young man. He officially leaves school this summer & is awaiting his allocated A'Level results so that he knows which university he will be attending from September (one he has a conditional offer of 2A's & a B, the other unconditional). He wants to be a science teacher and work with children, in particular, ones with special needs and/or who are vulnerable. I think he will be rather ace at it myself, he's taken that experience & turned into a positive way for him to make a difference. Yep Im a proud Mum!

I think this was the only other high profile case involving the FA

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2001/dec/06/newsstory.sport4

Apologies if this comes across as anything other than a genuine question , but how come the PL are allowing Black Lives Matter on their shirts instead of their names yet they wasn’t allowed to have poppies on their shirts surely this is double standards

Quote from: dave26 on Mon 15 Jun 2020 07:48

Apologies if this comes across as anything other than a genuine question , but how come the PL are allowing Black Lives Matter on their shirts instead of their names yet they wasn’t allowed to have poppies on their shirts surely this is double standards

If my memory is correct, the clubs are allowed to have poppies on their shirts in the PL and EFL and  this has continued for about 7 years.
It was FIFA who deemed that they would not be allowed on the England shirt in any matches becasue they consider that it is a political symbol. Again, if memory servees me correctly, they wore armbands with the poppy on them.
Of course, my memory could be playing tricks ---it's my age!

Correct!

Apologies for linking to the s*n but there is an article in there on Bhups and Sunny Gill

https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/football/11865588/bame-referees-sunny-bhups-gill-jarnail-singh/