RateTheRef

Quote from: bmb on Mon 13 Mar 2023 12:58

Consistency is unattainable all the time that the vast majority of decisions remain subjective, imo. A lenient referee who referees more within the spirit of the LOTG is always going to be lenient, a strict 100% by the book referee is always going to be strict and as such their decisions will be different on the exact same situation as their subjectivity will be different. No 2 incidents are ever exactly the same, despite a high degree of similarity, the angle the ball comes in, the speed of the players or ball, the angle a tackle comes in from, other players proximity, the point of contact on the ball or other player, the force of the contact on the ball or player, the proximity of the referee, the angle of view the referee has and how much if at all their view is obscured are just some of the factors that will make any given scenario, that at first glance appears the same as another one, a slightly unique difference from each other and can be the difference between one being given and the other not given. I believe the best we can realistically hope for in terms of consistency is that every referee is consistent in their decision making across a game and deal with similar incidents in a similar manner.

As to VAR I seem to recall we had many conversations when it was first spoken of about how a subjective decision made by the on field referee can/will be reviewed by a different referee who may or may not have a different tolerance level and their decision to intervene or not is going to be based on their subjectivity. We are now seeing how it does (or does not) work! If I say I'm happy that was just a coming together and that is my subjective opinion of an incident, but you say well imo it was reckless and that is your subjective opinion then how can either of us say well I am right and you are wrong just because we have a difference in tolerance levels, which directly impacts our subjectivity?

I think a lot of the issue people have is the fact that two very similar looking tackles (or one worse than another) is judged less harshly than a decision the day before by the same official.

Quote from: ajb95 on Tue 14 Mar 2023 18:22

I remember a ref saying, might have been Phil dose, that a red card is a red card no matter no is refereeing, no matter the angle etc.

VAR is showing how poor some referees are at making crucial game changing decisions!

I don't think you are listening to what is being said.  VAR is NOT about getting the correct decision, it is about correcting clear and obvious errors.  The VAR might well watch a replay where the referee has given a caution and think he would have given a red, but that isn't the basis for him to recommend a review.  He has to be 100% sure that the referee was absolutely wrong, that it was a clanger, put it which ever way you like, but the number of VAR recommendations should be very low.  It is designed for game changing decisions such as Thierry Henry's handball against Ireland, not routine penalty or red card decisions.  It should only be used for the type of decisions where 100 referees all watch it and go "whoah, he's dropped a right clanger there".

Quote from: ajb95 on Tue 14 Mar 2023 18:22

I remember a ref saying, might have been Phil dose, that a red card is a red card no matter no is refereeing, no matter the angle etc.

VAR is showing how poor some referees are at making crucial game changing decisions!

I don't think you are listening to what is being said.  VAR is NOT about getting the correct decision, it is about correcting clear and obvious errors.  The VAR might well watch a replay where the referee has given a caution and think he would have given a red, but that isn't the basis for him to recommend a review.  He has to be 100% sure that the referee was absolutely wrong, that it was a clanger, put it which ever way you like, but the number of VAR recommendations should be very low.  It is designed for game changing decisions such as Thierry Henry's handball against Ireland, not routine penalty or red card decisions.  It should only be used for the type of decisions where 100 referees all watch it and go "whoah, he's dropped a right clanger there".

Consistency is unattainable all the time that the vast majority of decisions remain subjective, imo. A lenient referee who referees more within the spirit of the LOTG is always going to be lenient, a strict 100% by the book referee is always going to be strict and as such their decisions will be different on the exact same situation as their subjectivity will be different. No 2 incidents are ever exactly the same, despite a high degree of similarity, the angle the ball comes in, the speed of the players or ball, the angle a tackle comes in from, other players proximity, the point of contact on the ball or other player, the force of the contact on the ball or player, the proximity of the referee, the angle of view the referee has and how much if at all their view is obscured are just some of the factors that will make any given scenario, that at first glance appears the same as another one, a slightly unique difference from each other and can be the difference between one being given and the other not given. I believe the best we can realistically hope for in terms of consistency is that every referee is consistent in their decision making across a game and deal with similar incidents in a similar manner.

As to VAR I seem to recall we had many conversations when it was first spoken of about how a subjective decision made by the on field referee can/will be reviewed by a different referee who may or may not have a different tolerance level and their decision to intervene or not is going to be based on their subjectivity. We are now seeing how it does (or does not) work! If I say I'm happy that was just a coming together and that is my subjective opinion of an incident, but you say well imo it was reckless and that is your subjective opinion then how can either of us say well I am right and you are wrong just because we have a difference in tolerance levels, which directly impacts our subjectivity?

Southampton v Brentford last night- awful tackle by Lavia over the top of the ball, studs raking into opponents ankle, ŕ la casemeiro. No card shown. No VAR intervention.

Who can possibly defend this shambles?