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Author Topic: A TAYLOR - Liverpool v Chelsea  (Read 1552 times)

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PhiltheRef

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Re: A TAYLOR - Liverpool v Chelsea
« Reply #15 on: Sat 28 Aug 2021 22:20 »
Once he has determined that it was handball the RC and Penalty were inevitable
Dealt with swiftly and effectively
Sorry Dave26 but if he can see it at first glance why keep looking (which I believe we were trying to get away from)?

I am all for quick reviews but from what I saw Anthony Taylor did not seem to watch it close up for the real time replay , it was more like a still image of the ball hitting the hand and not how it came about

Yeah I can confirm having just rewound my TV, Taylor simply looks at a still image when he goes over not a replay.

Have you considered that he may have wanted to check only
A What it hit
B Where the hand / arm was?

Also,  as he approached the screen the "video" was playing. If he couldn't see what was happening from 10 metres max then it's a sad indictment on the regular tests that SG1  Refs have to pass

GingerReferee

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Re: A TAYLOR - Liverpool v Chelsea
« Reply #16 on: Sat 28 Aug 2021 23:45 »
I cannot see how people on here are saying this is not a red card. He clearly swings his arm out to save It. So just because it hits his knee he can therfore become a goalkeeper?? Red card all day imho
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DublinRef

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Re: A TAYLOR - Liverpool v Chelsea
« Reply #17 on: Sun 29 Aug 2021 09:17 »
Correct penalty for me, definitely falls under a deliberate handball regardless of he touch on the leg. Not overly worried about how long he looks at the screen once he gets it right.

It is such a shame that the EPL don't allow referees to properly deal with dissent. Taylor was totally mobbed by players at the penalty and at half time. This is the same referee who sent off Vidal for two YC within 10 seconds for dissent absolutely correctly - but that was in a UEFA game. I think a few Chelsea players could easily have walked for the continued protests, very disappointing the PGMOL don't back referees like UEFA do (and I think UEFA don't back them enough!).
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Affy_Moose

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Re: A TAYLOR - Liverpool v Chelsea
« Reply #18 on: Sun 29 Aug 2021 10:16 »
I didn’t see this live and instead heard some brief discussion on 5Live ahead of seeing a replay.

Having seen the clip, I’m surprised at the level of discussion. It’s very clearly a handball, and therefore a penalty. With it being DOGSO by handball the red in inescapable.

It should be remembered that deflection off a body part is a mitigator and not a get-out-of-jail-free card.

The ball deflects slightly up and James’s hand moves up to and through the ball. The result of which is the ball being propelled out from his body. It may have been an unintended, almost automatic reaction but there is a very clear movement of the arm towards the ball. That much is easily observed.

Had his arms remained in their position and the ball more naturally dropped dead to his feet, we would have had a very interesting and far more legitimate discussion upon the merits of the handball law more broadly and how that incident was classified, but in the real world that is a near textbook penalty.
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ARF

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Re: A TAYLOR - Liverpool v Chelsea
« Reply #19 on: Sun 29 Aug 2021 10:32 »
Law is quite clear that if it hits a part of the body and it hits the arm it’s not handball.
Try working from this year's LotG and not last year's.

TVOS

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Re: A TAYLOR - Liverpool v Chelsea
« Reply #20 on: Sun 29 Aug 2021 11:29 »
How can anyone watch a player hook the ball off the line with his arm and say it’s not handball?

The correct decision was reached penalty and a red card, yes there can be questions over the process, I would question in what world would a player think he could get away with that with var.

It was the correct decision, but to say the player "hooked the ball off the line" is nonsense, as is saying "I would question in what world would a player think he could get away with that with var", given the split second in which the handball occurred.

If you think James had the time and wherewithal to think "Hmm, I might get away with handling it here", then I'd suggest he's wasted as a footballer.
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Ref Fan

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Re: A TAYLOR - Liverpool v Chelsea
« Reply #21 on: Sun 29 Aug 2021 11:42 »

Had his arms remained in their position and the ball more naturally dropped dead to his feet, we would have had a very interesting and far more legitimate discussion upon the merits of the handball law more broadly and how that incident was classified, but in the real world that is a near textbook penalty.

That was the point I was trying to express earlier.  The situation you mention will surely occur sooner or later, and I think the debate would be whether that would still constitute a "handball offence" under the penalty / red card law.

On yesterday's incident, I'd have to agree the ultimate decisions were correct but with sympathy for the defender, and I imagine all Taylor wanted confirmation of was where the ball struck James.
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Joecphillips

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Re: A TAYLOR - Liverpool v Chelsea
« Reply #22 on: Sun 29 Aug 2021 11:49 »
Well I look forward to the point where players control it on the thing and run with the ball like rugby, he was quite clearly controlling the ball with his arm this isn't some accidental thigh up onto the arm, there's deliberate movement
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TVOS

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Re: A TAYLOR - Liverpool v Chelsea
« Reply #23 on: Sun 29 Aug 2021 12:45 »
Well I look forward to the point where players control it on the thing and run with the ball like rugby, he was quite clearly controlling the ball with his arm this isn't some accidental thigh up onto the arm, there's deliberate movement

It was instinctive, rather than intentional. It happened in a fraction of a second.

It was still a penalty either way.
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Joecphillips

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Re: A TAYLOR - Liverpool v Chelsea
« Reply #24 on: Sun 29 Aug 2021 15:59 »
Well I look forward to the point where players control it on the thing and run with the ball like rugby, he was quite clearly controlling the ball with his arm this isn't some accidental thigh up onto the arm, there's deliberate movement

It was instinctive, rather than intentional. It happened in a fraction of a second.

It was still a penalty either way.

I was trying to quote someone who replied to me on mobile and did a horrible job of it

Jackinthebox

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Re: A TAYLOR - Liverpool v Chelsea
« Reply #25 on: Mon 30 Aug 2021 11:27 »
I've watched this a few times since Saturday. I personally don't think its deliberate handball so therefore I think the RC is correct in the current law but still very harsh on James. A penalty and YC would be more appropriate but unfortunately because of the Law  the referee had his hands tied when it come to sending him off.
I think the law needs to be changed/clarified as to whats constitutes deliberate handball and the resulting punishment.
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Ashington46

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Re: A TAYLOR - Liverpool v Chelsea
« Reply #26 on: Mon 30 Aug 2021 12:06 »
I've watched this a few times since Saturday. I personally don't think its deliberate handball so therefore I think the RC is correct in the current law but still very harsh on James. A penalty and YC would be more appropriate but unfortunately because of the Law  the referee had his hands tied when it come to sending him off.
I think the law needs to be changed/clarified as to whats constitutes deliberate handball and the resulting punishment.

Having played over 1000 games at senior level in various countries and playing as a full back/centre half all of that time, I can tell you that your main object  is to keep the ball out of the net, even when you don't have time to think, it is just instinct. You know as a player that you will always get away with the odd misdemeanour, although with VAR it is much more difficult.
It certainly may not have been deliberate, in  that he thought about it and it could have been classed as unintentional, however, it stopped a goal and, even with all the changes in the Laws in recent times, James could have no complaint.
Referee's decision used to be final!

Leggy

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Re: A TAYLOR - Liverpool v Chelsea
« Reply #27 on: Mon 30 Aug 2021 16:38 »
Late to the debate though I am, I would have penalised as AT (eventually) did 15 years ago.  Although the ball deflected off his thigh he made an instinctive movement to prevent entering the goal.   That movement was with his arm and that arm made contact with the ball.

Result:  Penalty kick and red card for DOGSO.

The recent numerous changes to the way that handball should / should not be penalised have served to muddy the debate here.

As for the dissent, when will the football authorities wake up, grow a backbone and deal with this properly?  No other sport displays such an undignified, disrespectful and disgraceful side of itself during almost every game at every level.  Every active referee would willingly apply the Laws and eliminate 99% of all known dissent if only their masters and betters would let them.
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rustyref

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Re: A TAYLOR - Liverpool v Chelsea
« Reply #28 on: Mon 30 Aug 2021 22:49 »
Been away this weekend so new to this.  It is a clear penalty and red card for me, there's almost a scooping motion and I'm really struggling to see how there is any debate about the penalty.  And once the penalty is given there can be no debate whatsoever as to what the sanction has to be.

And also, there have been references to last year's law.  The handball law has changed significantly this year, so if you are going to quote law it really does have to be the current one.
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