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Author Topic: A TAYLOR - Liverpool v Chelsea  (Read 1557 times)

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TheThingFromLewes

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A TAYLOR - Liverpool v Chelsea
« on: Sat 28 Aug 2021 18:18 »
Has to be a penalty and a red card for James for DOGSO handball.

Excellent use of VAR and extremely quickly dealt with.

Chelsea losing the plot here and things getting tetchy.
« Last Edit: Sat 28 Aug 2021 18:21 by TheThingFromLewes »

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dave26

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Re: A TAYLOR - Liverpool v Chelsea
« Reply #1 on: Sat 28 Aug 2021 18:23 »
For me Taylor has been very poor , 3 Liverpool players escaped blatant yellow cards, the penalty I’m not convinced as imo James was off balance and the ball hit his thigh then his arm Anthony Taylor barely watched the VAR replay in real time just seemed to see a still picture of the ball hitting the arm his leniency at the beginning is coming back to bite him as the game got closer to half time
« Last Edit: Sat 28 Aug 2021 18:24 by dave26 »
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guest320

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Re: A TAYLOR - Liverpool v Chelsea
« Reply #2 on: Sat 28 Aug 2021 18:29 »
Has to be a penalty and a red card for James for DOGSO handball.

Excellent use of VAR and extremely quickly dealt with.

Chelsea losing the plot here and things getting tetchy.

Why do you say that? I was under the impression that the new handball law interpretations this season clearly stated penalties would not be awarded when the ball has hit another part of the defenders body first (ie the leg in this case). Both decisions exceptionally harsh IMO.

Will support the other post in saying Taylor has been generally very poor this half. Failed to book a number of Liverpool players for standard yellow cards - one example being Salah for dissent when he kicked the ball away. This has set the threshold for the game and will now find it very difficult to manage the Chelsea players when they do similar things in frustration in the second half. The moment Taylor books a Chelsea player for dissent second half every player will legitimately feel aggrieved about his inconsistencies.

This is a constant frustration for me. When this game boils over the players will get the blame. Maybe look for the tone Taylor has set with his dreadful inconsistencies first...
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dave26

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Re: A TAYLOR - Liverpool v Chelsea
« Reply #3 on: Sat 28 Aug 2021 18:32 »
Once he has determined that it was handball the RC and Penalty were inevitable
Dealt with swiftly and effectively
Sorry Dave26 but if he can see it at first glance why keep looking (which I believe we were trying to get away from)?

I am all for quick reviews but from what I saw Anthony Taylor did not seem to watch it close up for the real time replay , it was more like a still image of the ball hitting the hand and not how it came about

guest320

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Re: A TAYLOR - Liverpool v Chelsea
« Reply #4 on: Sat 28 Aug 2021 18:35 »
Once he has determined that it was handball the RC and Penalty were inevitable
Dealt with swiftly and effectively
Sorry Dave26 but if he can see it at first glance why keep looking (which I believe we were trying to get away from)?

I am all for quick reviews but from what I saw Anthony Taylor did not seem to watch it close up for the real time replay , it was more like a still image of the ball hitting the hand and not how it came about

Yeah I can confirm having just rewound my TV, Taylor simply looks at a still image when he goes over not a replay. 

ajb95

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Re: A TAYLOR - Liverpool v Chelsea
« Reply #5 on: Sat 28 Aug 2021 18:36 »
Sorry but this is where Taylor falls down time and time again in the big games. Stamp your authority early. Take the sting out of the game. He didn’t do it and allowed Liverpool players to get away with clear punishable cautionable offences!

He hasn’t gone up with the game and it’s boiled over which we saw at the end.

Match control has now gone with a terrible decision for the penalty IMO. It clearly hits his knee and then his arm - don’t know what Neville is talking about as that isn’t the law.


PhiltheRef

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Re: A TAYLOR - Liverpool v Chelsea
« Reply #6 on: Sat 28 Aug 2021 18:53 »
Has to be a penalty and a red card for James for DOGSO handball.

Excellent use of VAR and extremely quickly dealt with.

Chelsea losing the plot here and things getting tetchy.

Why do you say that? I was under the impression that the new handball law interpretations this season clearly stated penalties would not be awarded when the ball has hit another part of the defenders body first (ie the leg in this case). Both decisions exceptionally harsh IMO.

Will support the other post in saying Taylor has been generally very poor this half. Failed to book a number of Liverpool players for standard yellow cards - one example being Salah for dissent when he kicked the ball away. This has set the threshold for the game and will now find it very difficult to manage the Chelsea players when they do similar things in frustration in the second half. The moment Taylor books a Chelsea player for dissent second half every player will legitimately feel aggrieved about his inconsistencies.

This is a constant frustration for me. When this game boils over the players will get the blame. Maybe look for the tone Taylor has set with his dreadful inconsistencies first...


There was an obvious movement of  the arm away from where it was when the ball struck the thigh and also to "swat" the ball away

Joecphillips

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Re: A TAYLOR - Liverpool v Chelsea
« Reply #7 on: Sat 28 Aug 2021 19:00 »
How can anyone watch a player hook the ball off the line with his arm and say it’s not handball?

The correct decision was reached penalty and a red card, yes there can be questions over the process, I would question in what world would a player think he could get away with that with var.
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Joecphillips

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Re: A TAYLOR - Liverpool v Chelsea
« Reply #8 on: Sat 28 Aug 2021 19:03 »
Sorry but this is where Taylor falls down time and time again in the big games. Stamp your authority early. Take the sting out of the game. He didn’t do it and allowed Liverpool players to get away with clear punishable cautionable offences!

He hasn’t gone up with the game and it’s boiled over which we saw at the end.

Match control has now gone with a terrible decision for the penalty IMO. It clearly hits his knee and then his arm - don’t know what Neville is talking about as that isn’t the law.

If the laws state that isn’t hand ball then they are broken even more than they were last season, players shouldn’t be allowed to turn into goalkeepers just because the ball has hit them on their knee.
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ajb95

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Re: A TAYLOR - Liverpool v Chelsea
« Reply #9 on: Sat 28 Aug 2021 19:54 »
Sorry but this is where Taylor falls down time and time again in the big games. Stamp your authority early. Take the sting out of the game. He didn’t do it and allowed Liverpool players to get away with clear punishable cautionable offences!

He hasn’t gone up with the game and it’s boiled over which we saw at the end.

Match control has now gone with a terrible decision for the penalty IMO. It clearly hits his knee and then his arm - don’t know what Neville is talking about as that isn’t the law.

If the laws state that isn’t hand ball then they are broken even more than they were last season, players shouldn’t be allowed to turn into goalkeepers just because the ball has hit them on their knee.

Law is quite clear that if it hits a part of the body and it hits the arm it’s not handball. If you look at the replay where is he supposed to put his arm?
(Edited to fix quote thingy-hertsref)

« Last Edit: Sat 28 Aug 2021 20:07 by Hertsref123 »
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Ref Fan

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Re: A TAYLOR - Liverpool v Chelsea
« Reply #10 on: Sat 28 Aug 2021 19:57 »
There's evidently a difference of opinion as to whether or not there was a deliberate movement of the arm to swat the ball away.
Out of interest, is there a caviat with handball on the line similar to where a foul tackle occurs in the box and is dogso but the referee deems it a genuine attempt to get the ball? e.g Oliver only giving a YC to Jones in the United-Chelsea Cup Final.  There may be incidents where a player desperately tries to play the ball with his body but it strikes his arm which does not move towards the ball or is not in an unnatural position but prevents a goal. Would that still be a penalty and RC or only a YC in that instance, or not even a penalty?

I've seen today's incident about 3 times and am still undecided whether there was a deliberate movement of the arm after the ball diverted from the leg/thigh or whether it was in an unnatural position.  But does that matter?  According to the Law, is a handball in that situation an automatic penalty and RC? If so, that would seem somewhat unfair in some circumstances.

Have to agree about no Liverpool players being carded. 'Soft touch' is all very well but Fabinho could easily have seen yellow for either PI, or the late challenge in the 2nd half on its own.

It was certainly a frantic start to the game at a very fast pace and Anthony Taylor perhaps should have stamped his authority on it sooner.

 
« Last Edit: Sat 28 Aug 2021 20:32 by Ref Fan »
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Ref Fan

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Re: A TAYLOR - Liverpool v Chelsea
« Reply #11 on: Sat 28 Aug 2021 20:31 »
Hackett on twitter claims that the exemption (double / treble jeopardy) that applies for certain challenges that would otherwise be a RC for DOGSO, doesn't apply to handball under the Law if it denies an obvious goal.  Therefore, it had to be a RC he says.
More knowledgeable minds than mine will know if he is correct.

Joecphillips

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Re: A TAYLOR - Liverpool v Chelsea
« Reply #12 on: Sat 28 Aug 2021 20:41 »
Hackett on twitter claims that the exemption (double / treble jeopardy) that applies for certain challenges that would otherwise be a RC for DOGSO, doesn't apply to handball under the Law if it denies an obvious goal.  Therefore, it had to be a RC he says.
More knowledgeable minds than mine will know if he is correct.

https://www.thefa.com/football-rules-governance/lawsandrules/laws/football-11-11/law-12---fouls-and-misconduct

Ref Fan

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Re: A TAYLOR - Liverpool v Chelsea
« Reply #13 on: Sat 28 Aug 2021 21:02 »

"Denying a goal or an obvious goal-scoring opportunity.
Where a player denies the opposing team a goal or an obvious goal-scoring opportunity by a handball offence the player is sent off wherever the offence occurs."


That would seem to be pretty clear unless there is a question of what qualifies as a "handball offence"

Readingfan

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Re: A TAYLOR - Liverpool v Chelsea
« Reply #14 on: Sat 28 Aug 2021 22:10 »
Once he has determined that it was handball the RC and Penalty were inevitable
Dealt with swiftly and effectively
Sorry Dave26 but if he can see it at first glance why keep looking (which I believe we were trying to get away from)?

I am all for quick reviews but from what I saw Anthony Taylor did not seem to watch it close up for the real time replay , it was more like a still image of the ball hitting the hand and not how it came about
I am not able to see incidents for myself any more but this reminds me a bit of the 'old days' where referees would routinely disallow goals that went directly in off an attacker's hand/arm, even if there could be debate about how deliberate it was. If a defending player stops the ball going in the goal because it hit their arm I think the general expectation in football would be a penalty.
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