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Author Topic: 16th May 2021 - Mike Dean - WBALIV  (Read 2079 times)

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Leggy

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Re: 16th May 2021 - Mike Dean - WBALIV
« Reply #45 on: Wed 19 May 2021 07:08 »
But this is a wider debate, which can be summed up as "game management" versus "applying the Laws of the Game"

Game management says blow for time when the ball is in a neutral zone, whereas the Laws state that the game (or half) ends when time expires.

Game management says that a throw-in or restart can proceed if its close(ish) to where it should be, whereas the Laws state it should be where the ball went out of play or where the offence occurred.

Game management says that if a player delays the restart of play by "hanging around" two yards from a free-kick the referee asks him to retreat, whereas the Laws state that is a mandatory caution.

Game management says that if the goal-keeper holds the ball in his hands for 10-15 seconds turn a blind eye, whereas the Laws state that an indirect free-kick should be awarded.

Game management says that if a player tells the referee to f**k off turn a blind eye, whereas the Laws state that a red card should be awarded.

I could go on (my wife says that, too often, I do).  I comes down to whether you want referees to apply the Laws of the game in a fair and consistent manner or whether you want them to be "game managers", taking the path of least resistance so that their employers (who have a vested interest in the outcome of the games) are kept happy and renew their contracts.  Remember that, after the incident in Argentina in 1978, Clive Thomas never refereed another World Cup match.  Perhaps he should have been a better game manager?
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robbie_scouse

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Re: 16th May 2021 - Mike Dean - WBALIV
« Reply #46 on: Wed 19 May 2021 07:53 »
Extending the game purely to allow something to be taken is NOT within the laws
Factually incorrect, not sure why you cannot accept this?
Tell me what restart can extend play within the laws except a penalty.  You are choosing to take issue simply because it is your team involved on one occasion, whereas I am making the general point you fail to grasp.
Not at all - I can assure you that if it had been West Brom who scored from that corner I’d have made the same argument - assuming you would have brought it up on here, that is. It’s not like Liverpool - or any other team - have never conceded beyond the minimum time indicated!

In reply to your question here, I believe the answer is anything the referee sees fit. The only thing he cannot do in law is to end the match without an awarded penalty been taken.

In my opinion, your interpretation of the Law is wrong and would lead to much “gamesmanship” as in the scenario I gave you earlier. Time management is one thing and I would tend to agree with you on that. For example, if a referee decides there should be an additional 3m45s added time I’m pretty sure this would be rounded up to 4 minutes rather than indicating 3 as the minimum.

However, I don’t think - certainly as things stand - that time management is an exact science. Experienced referees, indeed anyone involved in football, has a feel for how much added time should be indicated - with 1 minute in the first half and three minutes in the second half standard (unless of course a team is winning 7-0 then only one additional minute will be played).

This is where I feel your argument falls and I think that Liverpool’s goal on Sunday is the perfect example. Mike Dean indicated a minimum of 4 and the corner was awarded on 93:52. The chances of there been exactly 4 minutes (in this or any other match) are extremely remote so it was quite reasonable - and within law - to allow that corner to be taken.

Free kick awarded 20 yards out on 93:35 with 4 indicated. Bit of messing around sorting your wall out and then “sorry fellas, times up”. That’s what you seem to be advocating and I don’t see how that would benefit football in the slightest.
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LateTackle

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Re: 16th May 2021 - Mike Dean - WBALIV
« Reply #47 on: Wed 19 May 2021 14:42 »
Referee coaches and assessors used to talk of neutral areas to finish games. I am in agreement with you Late Tackle. Finishing times are less rigorously applied if a team is attacking. I have lost count the number of games that finish the moment a goal keeper kickd the ball or releases it into play
Someone at last understands the point I am making.  I hear the arguments from another poster about 'game management' and time keeping not being an exact science.  If time keeping was done properly, game management would not be an issue.  This means an outside timekeeper with a visible clock that stops and starts.  It would clarify it for everyone and have the added bonus of cutting out most of the timewasting. 

Stoppage time as a concept needs to be scrapped and replaced with proper timekeeping for the 45 minutes.  The referee can indicate stop and start, to accommodate lengthy stoppages and timewasting.  Whether play would then end with a hooter while in play, or continue until the ball went dead, is open to debate.  I remain convinced that the current situation is messy, arbitrary and unsatisfactory.

If anyone watches La Liga they will surely have noticed that, if a referee indicates 3 minutes, that is how long until the whistle.  So players cynically roll around, kick the ball into the stands and take 30-40 seconds over a goal kick, knowing there will be no allowance made for it. 
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Ref Watcher

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Re: 16th May 2021 - Mike Dean - WBALIV
« Reply #48 on: Thu 20 May 2021 10:24 »
Game management says blow for time when the ball is in a neutral zone, whereas the Laws state that the game (or half) ends when time expires.
I generally blow for time when the ball is in a neutral zone although I am not averse to doing so when a corner is about to be taken (although not to Clive Thomaseseque extremes).  The reason is simple: if the ball is not in a neutral zone I am watching the game not my watch. 
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